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Post by frostheim on Feb 22, 2006 15:47:38 GMT 2
Really off topic but The Shaman Logo is a representation of Ukko ? The God of Thunder and the highest god of all in Finnish mythology ? As I've managed to find out along my courses in the Sámi mythology and folkbeliefs, *) this character in question represents a shaman in general (as it's holding his drum and the "drum stick") and thus having nothing to do with Ukko at all, as Ukko is derived from the later Finnic agricultural mythology (which is Baltic -influenced [thus Indo-European, not Finno-Ugric/Uralic]), whereas the drawings and carvings like this-one in the Korpiklaani -logo are derived namely from the proto-Finnic hunter-gatherer culture that has existed here in Finland before the agraric culture was adapted from the proto-Balts. This kind of drawings have later on been found in ie. shaman drums from the regions of the Sámi people. *) > And what it comes to the 2-headed form of the drum stick, a photo of a one can be seen here: I found also this little page considering the characters and pictures drawn in the drums (the site in Swedish though): www.arrankrukmakeri.com/tolkning.htm
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Post by jarmo on Feb 22, 2006 16:41:56 GMT 2
I thought it was Ukko... On that site: I find this: It is quite similar to "our" Shaman...
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Post by frostheim on Feb 22, 2006 20:49:06 GMT 2
It is quite similar to "our" Shaman... Aye; there have been a lot of different variations of the image representing a shaman through the ages. But then again, no need to be worried; perhaps you as an archer would be interested about the following: " The bow and the arrow as ancient artifacts for the hunter-gatherer cultures belong to the very oldest layers in the Eurasian mythology and ritualistic traditions. It may not be coincidence that the arrow has even replaced the drum within many shamanistic rites and initations. Before the drum even had appeared into the cult rituals, the arrow was even the most important "instrument" for a shaman. A good example of this is the bear wake (karhunpeijaiset; a ritualistic feast for hunting down a bear) which is considered being very old and archaic tradition, and where the sacrificial animal had always to be slain with an arrow. Another example are the ethymological associations between the words "drum" and "bow", as well as between the words "drumstick" and "arrow. In addition, in many Altaic-Turkic languages the word "shaman" stands for "the bowman, the archer". Thus it's most likely that the archer -characters in the rock paintings in Siberia and the mounted (riding) archers in the shaman drums represent shamans. The word for a shaman drum within the Nenets (Uralic; Samoyedic) people living in tundra is "bow", and during a ritual the shaman shall travel through the skies "as an arrow". Then again, according to the piece of information from the Enets people (Uralic; Samoyedic) considering the subject, the arrow is a ritualistic weapon for a shaman when he has to fight against evil spirits during the ritual. In the mid 1800's a well-known and remarkable Finnish folklorist and explorer M.A. Castrén made a note in his journals about a Samoyed shaman - probably a Selkup, as it happened in the Tomsk region - who during a ritualistic session held a shaman staff in his left hand and two arrows in right. The arrow was not only a magical weapon for the shamans, but it also symbolized flying and the speed of a flight. The arrow has also been considered as "a meeting place for the spirits". Within the Buryats (Mongolian branch, Eastern Siberia) one have been able to achieve the shaman abilities by inheriting them, and their word utha stands for "soul", "arrow-head" and "shaman inheritance"; the soul has considered to be living in the arrow-head. The Buryats tend to use the bow also for predicting. Altaic-Turkic shamans are known to have performed a prediction ritual by holding a small bow on their fingers and then watching in which direction the bow shall turn, and the Altaic-Turkic peoples have also got many different expressions for those shamans who have used bows and arrows in their initations; these even belong to a category of it's own ( tëlgëchi), which shows the importance of the task in question for the whole society. It is also known that the shamans of the Daur people in the north-east China have touched the head of a sick person with three arrows to capture the originator of a disease into the arrow-heads, then they've touched a chicken with the arrows to make this disease to shift to the animal, and finally they've discharged an arrow with a flaming head up towards the sky. A Manchurian (Tungusic) book of rituals tells that a female shaman executes a prediction initation with a sword in the other hand and a ritualistic arrow in the other. The usage of bows and arrows within rituals and initations have been known to exist also within the Korean and Japanese female shamans." Source: Hoppál, Mihály: Šamaanien maailma ("The World of Shamans"), 2003; ISBN 951-769-299-1 Translated from the Finnish text a while ago: Kuuraparta
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Post by jarmo on Feb 22, 2006 22:11:21 GMT 2
I feel honoured as an archer.
Thank you! I like it. Is it ok when I translate it to dutch to try to get it into the club paper?
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Post by frostheim on Feb 23, 2006 0:09:07 GMT 2
I feel honoured as an archer. Thank you! I like it. Is it ok when I translate it to dutch to try to get it into the club paper? Heh, no problem, mate; I guess it's quite ok.
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Post by SkogRoar on Feb 23, 2006 8:17:00 GMT 2
hehe, Hoppál Mihály is great, but at here in Hungary actually noone knows about him. The modern Hungarian shaman culture doesn't builds on the aincent rites and customs, but builds on exploiting the rich and the "elder ones" So they're kind of TVshamans, that you used to see in american shows... but ofcourse there are some groups that keep doing what is calles "shamanism"..
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Post by frostheim on Feb 23, 2006 12:17:50 GMT 2
but ofcourse there are some groups that keep doing what is calles "shamanism".. Not very surprisingly; new-age groups everywhere nowadays, grrr..
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Feb 26, 2006 18:21:55 GMT 2
hehe, Hoppál Mihály is great, but at here in Hungary actually noone knows about him. Hey, be careful, my dear friend!!! M. Hoppál is a very well known expert . During my years at the university I've met his name several times. He's got plenty of books, and if you are interested in real shamanism and in the origins of Hungarian folklore, he is a must. Though it's not your fault that you haven't heard about him. During the past few years, his name was somehow left out from the bibliographies of Hungarian History and Literature books written for schools...
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Post by jarmo on Feb 27, 2006 17:56:53 GMT 2
The idea came at school... at home I worked it out (it is after the famous picture of Leonardo Da Vinci...) And kuuraparta, In the national archery paper is always a page which informs about ancient archery, I will try to get it published. With your credits of course
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 27, 2006 21:00:43 GMT 2
Very nice Jarmo! I will 'reveal' my wallet, it's not so special. I decorated it some time ago, because those black wallets are all the same and I really love the inlay on Jonne's guitar. No originality here, just a copy. But I like it
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Post by icydragon on Mar 3, 2006 22:01:15 GMT 2
woah all these are really great, if i can find (or some1 send me) a decent picture of Korpiklaani then i can hav a go at making them into chibi characters XD
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Post by Humppaporo on Mar 3, 2006 23:23:00 GMT 2
Pictures of Korpiklaani on www.korpiklaani.com and choose pictures... or use Google, you will have almost too much to choose from... ;D
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Post by jarmo on Mar 21, 2006 18:07:49 GMT 2
*cough* *cough* *blows dust from this topic* Made today:
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Post by Humppaporo on Mar 21, 2006 20:34:53 GMT 2
Hey, that's nice!! Do you have a link for a bigger version?
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Post by teuton on Mar 21, 2006 20:39:35 GMT 2
Really cool, I agree! Definetely good work, dude "Present thy warriors";D
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