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Post by DiabolicalSaintSalem on Mar 26, 2007 19:40:26 GMT 2
well, im going to comment on a kind of old reply made by DiabolicSS (no pun intended ). Well, I am half-German... regarding that ppl living with their own community, that doesn't happen just in the US (in the Uk you find chinatown and so). its generally a choice made the same ppl to live with their own. a person in a foreign coutnry likes to speak their own language and their culture. Yep. of course, it doesn't help when the president (even if almost everyone in the world knows that the guy's brain was recycled from nuclear waste buried in Nevada or Arizona) comes out with sentences, such as "I believe God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job". Bush Jr. is not 'stupid'...power-mad or somewhat delusional, aye, but not stupid. Politics at any level, doesn't matter what country or form of government, is not a bundle of concepts that the average person can grasp- which is why a person of average abilities doesn't get elected. It's much more than simply enacting decisions and establishing diplomatic relations with other countries. I certainly wouldn't call Bush Jr. one of the brightest presidents we've had by any stretch, or even one of the best, but the man is no idiot. i grew up with a lot of "american culture" due to all the movies and series i've watched. thats why, i think i'm very disappointed with the egocentrism of the US. well, an obvious example its the 25% of pollution of the world comes from 5% of the world population. i agree that the US its maybe the country in the world that resembles the most with that "land of dreams". but at what cost for the rest of the world? Every country exhibits ethnocentricity, a.k.a., thinking their country is the 'best'. It's not just an American thing, though some of us may be more vocal than those in other countries. You know what disappoints me? That a lot of the people who denounce Americans for stereotyping other countries and being arrogant also adhere to common stereotypes about America as the absolute truth...we don't all drive SUVs. We don't all want to see beautiful landscapes raped and destroyed for the sake of the almighty dollar (I sure as hell don't). We don't all have 15 credit cards and $40,000 US in debt from our 'extravagant' and wasteful lifestyles. We're not all obese. We do care about the welfare of other countries and less fortunate people, despite what the news media may say. I'd be curious, do you think Spain is the greatest place you'd want to live? If not, why? And if not, where would you rather be? My guess is that, even if you don't approve of everything Spain does, you're probably still proud to live there, aren't you? It's the same for Americans. I don't agree with some of the things the American government does or some of the trends in society...but I still love my country. americans like to wage war. in or out of their country. in, because as in 1 of Michael Moore's (who is now victim of one movie-documentary too ) movies, more than 11000 ppl are murdered anually while in countries , such as the Uk or France (obsviously I don't need to mention my Portugal's numbers) not even reach 100. out, its obvious. northern korea, iran, etc..... Oh, come on, now...Iraq aside for the time being...how could American help places like Darfur without lending military assistance? In a perfect world, every disagreement and problem could be solved with rational, respectful debates. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. There are times when using force is necessary. and why the hell almost all the crazy news come from the States? like "woman sues company over dead cat stuck in the microwave". [/i] Funny, all we get to read about over here for crazy news is when some guy in France decides to steal some lobsters by dropping them down his pants...do I need to elaborate on where that ended? Bizarre news becomes news because it's entertaining...and it's always more entertaining when it takes place in other countries, isn't it? You want some true stupid American news, look up some of the frivolous lawsuits we've had over here, like the woman who received several million dollars after she spilled hot coffee in her lap because she was too stupid to put the cup in her car's cupholder and instead put it between her legs... If you're stupid, come to America and sue someone. You'll be an overnight millionaire. or all the kids that decide that its "cool" to enter a school and shoot down ppl. the "good" news is that this is becoming so common that soon will stop being cool. Stop being cool? It was never 'cool' to begin with. Exactly what facts do foreign newspeople present when there's a school shooting over here? Because in a majority of the cases, as authorities dig around and try to find a motive for the young shooters, it becomes clear that more often than not, the shooters had been teased and picked on relentless, for years- and no one, not teachers, not parents, not other students- did a damn thing to stop the teasing. Why do you think the teen years happen to have the highest suicide rate? Teasing from peers. Of course it doesn't justifty the perpetraitors to kill anyone over teasing, but it should be understood that the majority of them were not psychopaths- they were tormented, and reached their limit. Ever notice, too, how in most of the shootings, it wasn't random- there were certain people the shooters wanted to get? Again, goes back to the bullying. I wish schools and authorities would do more to end that crap, rather than just shaking their heads like they don't know what caused the shooting and just wait for the next one... but americans are inventive, im sure that they'll come up with something to "bust some caps on some ppl". it might be jsut me, but it seems that having in the Constitution that everyone has the right to own a gun, tends to lead to violence a little too much. just a little. www.handguncontrol.net/Gunlaws%20around%20the%20world.htmRead that; then tell me about how effective banning handguns is. i don't even want to start on the amount of "religions" and "sects" you have there....."Brother, as we don't like the dress that saint has, lets found our own faith". So...we should have a national religion, rather than allow many to coexist here? im not an expert on your history, of course. but i have the impression that most of your influent politicians are from "redneck" states. maybe because they are a lot, but even so..... i agree that your politicians suck!i believe that beign ruled by some suck-ass politicians all over the years is an indication that your super political system is a bit "on the streets of bitterness" (portuguese expression). 1.) Actually, nearly all of them were either from the North East or the Midwest US, not the 'redneck' deep south or the ultraliberal west coast. 2.) Say what you will about democracy...non-democratic societies have been saying the democratic system would fail since its inception hundreds of years ago. Guess what? No democracy has ever failed in history. Not one. The closest a democracy ever came to crumbling was the American Great Depression of the 1930's...the economy was in shambles...but eventually came roaring back. Hey, democracy works. Of course the system will 'stumble' now and then and there will be recessions, even depressions...but the system always rights itself. again, i might be skipping something, but how the hell did Bush Jr. entered harvard (or another member of the Ivy league)?! Daddy's magic fingers? Again, he's no idiot...though anyone with enough money and/or connections can get into a good school here. It's a common misconception that you need to be a genius to get into a top US college. A person could be of only average intelligence, but still get into Duke University if he can throw a football 100 yards...sad commentary on the decay of values in society? Oh, yes... its true wal-marts gives jobs. but for what i've read, they are usual called exploiters. I prefer the term 'destroyer of 'Mom-n'-Pop' stores and small business'... anyone else think it's ironic that the slogan for Wal-Mart's offshoot store, Sam's Club, is 'We're in business for small business'- when nothing kills more small businesses than a Wal-Mart being built in a small community? For all its faults, Wal-Mart does have its positive attributes. It does create jobs and it does contribute to economic growth and it allows people who don't make a lot of money to be able to afford things they couldn't previously (steak, etc.). if your country didnt occupy half of the world with empty pretexts and didnt ruin the wild with your super "american dream". What happened to that '50/50' fault comment earlier? Does if feel better to blame it all on America? but i sure think that the average american feels that is entitled to have their presence noticed wherever and whenever they go. In that case, you've let stereotypes cloud your judgement of just what an 'average American' is. that they aren't very enlightned, as many voted on Bush Jr. No one knew Bush Jr. would do all that he did at the time of the election...all people like to go on and on about is what he's done wrong, but the man has done some good things. We're still better off than we would have been with Kerry in office. well, regardin hip-hop.. gimme a break! you don'tn think the 70s and 80s outfits to be 100000000 more homosexual and lame than hip-hop ones?! look at all those colours!!!!!it seemed every rocker was going to participate in some ice skating show or something. dont get me started on the makeup! I know I'm not alone in finding long-haired men attractive, and if they're wearing a little mascara and eyeliner, who cares? The hip-hop 'lifestyle' is ridiculous...the women look and in many cases, act, like whores and the men look like thugs. Excessive gold jewelry is morbidly tacky. And why is it that suddenly so many rich white kids over here think that they understand 'thug life', or what it means to grow up poor, in a ghetto? I've seen people wearing pants so baggy I could fit my waist in one of the legs...that's ridiculous. Not to mention that complete bastardization of good, coherant use of the English language. Is it cool to hear someone talk about how they're going to 'hit da nic stick and then bounce back to da hood in their bomb-ass g-ride?" Quite a few of the foreigners I've associeted with seem embarrassed by their English skills, since it's not their first language, but honestly, most foreigners I've met speak better proper English than a lot of hip-hoppers. It's embarrassing, and I hope the US grows out of this fashion blunder soon.
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Post by MaliceGarden on Mar 27, 2007 19:50:23 GMT 2
"Well, I am half-German..." i'm sorry for you Bush is stupid. but i know what you mean. he has risen to power somehow. i also agree a normal person doesn't have "what it takes" to become a powerful politician there. it lacks the "evil" needed, in order to succeed. of course that to be a regular politician, sure. i say this because this year or last year you had a high-school student elected mayor of some small town. "Every country exhibits ethnocentricity, a.k.a., thinking their country is the 'best'. It's not just an American thing, though some of us may be more vocal than those in other countries." well, you did rank #1 in a 1/2 weeks-old poll on being pride of national history. :] "That a lot of the people who denounce Americans for stereotyping other countries and being arrogant also adhere to common stereotypes about America as the absolute truth...we don't all drive SUVs." I agree with you. a lot of ppl drive pick-ups. well, joking aside..the percentage of ppl that drive SUV is enormous and i bet more ppl would if they could afford it. it is easy to understand why, because apart from guns, wars, cars really give the kicks to americans. so the bigger, the better. i dont want to get all technical, but why does a "regular" car there have like 2.5-3 liters engine, why in europe (and i assume in the rest of the world) 1.5 liters its a nice engine? "I'd be curious, do you think Spain is the greatest place you'd want to live? If not, why? And if not, where would you rather be? My guess is that, even if you don't approve of everything Spain does, you're probably still proud to live there, aren't you? It's the same for Americans. I don't agree with some of the things the American government does or some of the trends in society...but I still love my country." Nopes, im not proud of living in Espain a.k.a Dumbland. :DDDDD Spanish ppl suck! sucking more than spanish ppl only the language! but, i'm a bit partial, as i'm portuguese. well, again joking aside, I've some personal reasons of why i might live in Spain in the future (now I'm just doing my thesis here). but they've been experiecing great economical and social growth (only their cultural growth stand still ). And, in spite of having plenty of cultural differences compared to us (err.....an example for an american understand....maybe US/Mexico) I still see a lot of common aspects. So, basically (way way basically) Spain is like Portugal, but cheaper (apart from housing!!!!!)) and facing a great economical and social growth (along with the US is the country wtih more immigrants - about 10,8 %, 4 something million are immigrants). But to give a thorough view on Spain, it's better for Dave to stand up. :] "Oh, come on, now...Iraq aside for the time being...how could American help places like Darfur without lending military assistance? In a perfect world, every disagreement and problem could be solved with rational, respectful debates. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. There are times when using force is necessary." well, the problem is that americans view that is necessary too often. i know, i know americans are practical ppl, but bustin heads from the start is not very civilised. as i mentioned in the Political views topic, i agreed with you regarding Darfur. US shouldnt go alone there. :] "Stop being cool? It was never 'cool' to begin with. Exactly what facts do foreign newspeople present when there's a school shooting over here? Because in a majority of the cases, as authorities dig around and try to find a motive for the young shooters, it becomes clear that more often than not, the shooters had been teased and picked on relentless, for years- and no one, not teachers, not parents, not other students- did a damn thing to stop the teasing. Why do you think the teen years happen to have the highest suicide rate? Teasing from peers. Of course it doesn't justifty the perpetraitors to kill anyone over teasing, but it should be understood that the majority of them were not psychopaths- they were tormented, and reached their limit. Ever notice, too, how in most of the shootings, it wasn't random- there were certain people the shooters wanted to get? Again, goes back to the bullying. I wish schools and authorities would do more to end that crap, rather than just shaking their heads like they don't know what caused the shooting and just wait for the next one" well, if mommy and daddy, as well as the rest of the country taught kids how to use weapons and they didnt have the oportunity to go to the daddy's office and steal his gun and other stuff, maybe the shooting would diminish. AS far i know, bullying is not exclusively american. don't be so selffish. I had my own problems in school (lots of times) and a lot of european kids have and they dont "bust a cap" (is it like this?) in the other "homies" for dissing them. " www.handguncontrol.net/Gunlaws%20around%20the%20world.htmRead that; then tell me about how effective banning handguns is. " i can tell you its quite outdated. :] those statistics are quite contemporay to the end of the USSR and a lot of countries there were under Russian power before. :] so, you can imagine they weren't exaclty "stable". there are a few, namely Ukraine that still struggle nowadays. "So...we should have a national religion, rather than allow many to coexist here?" nopes, i like freedom of speech. :] the thing is that for a society that is constantly coming up with new "religions", you're(society, not you specifically) quite conservative (in a "hill-billy" kind of way). it seems that everyone in the society wants to justify its own existence and their gestures that create their own system of beliefs and criticize other beliefs. exemplifying with an absurd example (based in the comedy "red dwarf": "i like hopping to the church on sunday, so I shall found my own church". :] well, my point is that with so many "egocentric" "faiths" there are clashes between them. "2.) Say what you will about democracy...non-democratic societies have been saying the democratic system would fail since its inception hundreds of years ago. Guess what? No democracy has ever failed in history. Not one. The closest a democracy ever came to crumbling was the American Great Depression of the 1930's...the economy was in shambles...but eventually came roaring back. Hey, democracy works. Of course the system will 'stumble' now and then and there will be recessions, even depressions...but the system always rights itself." not talking of democracy in general. just yours. :] the guys in power are a bunch of sharks. and your super system of only "replubicans" and "democrats" really sucks, because as you mentioned Bush was better than Kerry. picking 1 (who is bad), because the other is worse, doesnt seem very nice to me. :] " 'if your country didnt occupy half of the world with empty pretexts and didnt ruin the wild with your super "american dream". ' What happened to that '50/50' fault comment earlier? Does if feel better to blame it all on America?" i wasnt explicit, sorry. i mean in terms of military presence only. :] "that they aren't very enlightned, as many voted on Bush Jr. No one knew Bush Jr. would do all that he did at the time of the election...all people like to go on and on about is what he's done wrong, but the man has done some good things. We're still better off than we would have been with Kerry in office. " i thought your media showed documentaries and facts of his life previous to the elections. the guy messed up big time a few times and was a daddy's boy. just because he "refound" Jesus ppl thought "Y-ah!Goddamn this fella must be a hell of nice guy! he found Jesus, Peggy-Sue!He must be a good fella, ain'he?". regarding hip-hop i was joking. i agree too. except that 70s/80s rock bands look like metrosexuals!
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Post by A Kat Person on Apr 7, 2007 22:21:51 GMT 2
"As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron". H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) And thus, I think, H.L. Mencken foretold the future, and that future is now here. Bush Jr. is STUPID. He is a puppet whose strings are pulled by Dick Cheney et al. Whatever brains cells he may have had in the past were, I'm sure, fizzled away via copious amounts of alcohol and cocaine. At this point in time, I think nothing represents the state of current American politics better than this photograph:
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Ǽcen
Eagle
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Post by Ǽcen on May 25, 2007 4:44:31 GMT 2
I'd really like to clear this whole war thing up. Just because the US is intervening in the middle east right now, a lot of people all over the world seem to enjoy generalizing Americans as trigger-happy warmongers. If you look at the military history of the US, you'll find that every war ever fought was either a) an honest struggle where the US wasn't the clear aggressor or b) supported by an INTERNATIONAL organization like NATO or the UN. Ironically, if you look at imperialism by European powers in Africa, and the arbitrary boundaries existing today, you might think twice about American having such a "hell, yeah, lets go interfere in the rest of the world" attitude. And now that I think of it, you could also look at Japanese imperialism in the rest of East Asia and see much of the same thing.
Sure, America may be engaged in war right now, but to ignore history and negatively generalize an entire population is much worse of an offense than driving a big car.
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on May 26, 2007 3:41:03 GMT 2
As an American, I'm an outsider in this discussion. The "bad guy" to all of this, while it's not exactly ME who's doing anything, but more along the lines of my country's administration. Americans, too, are getting fed up with the politicians, however I don't agree with anyone here on globalization.
It's as if you're all afraid that you'll BECOME Americans. And how much of your countries has influenced America itself? Lionheart, you come to my state and you may find yourself right at home. As would any other Swede, Norwegian, Dutchman or anoyne else from that part of the world. America IS the melting pot, we have no definite, "single" culture because all of America is influenced by YOUR COUNTRIES. Flame, varjotuuli, visit Pennsylvania and see how ultimately German the people are. I'm sorry, but no state in our union is fresh with original "American" culture. The simple fact is, the reason why you're enticed by America is because your homeland MADE America. It's the product of all the other countries, a true colony of the world. I'm sorry, but I have no problem with American culture spreading. I think if America, Europe and all of South America decided to stop screwing around and ditch the EU and country borders we could all be one enormous country. And it would WORK because we've influenced eachother's cultures to the point that we can be civil enough to have a multi-continental "empire" of sorts. I believe our peoples are to that stage where we can finally admit to being that good of friends and move in to one big house.
Also, that would probably never happen because everyone is afraid that America would just dominate them.
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Post by A Kat Person on Jun 27, 2007 22:50:53 GMT 2
Ǽcen: I think you're mistaken about America's war history. What about all of those military interventions in central and south America? For example the Iran Contra scandal? Was that an honest struggle in your opinion? What international organization backed that one up? How about the Vietnam war? I don't think you'll find many people thinking that was an "honest" struggle. Am I wrong here? While it is true that historically Europe as a colonial force has a much, much more gruesome history, we are talking about the PRESENT time, and in the present time Europe has reformed itself, while America continues to behave like a 19th century colonial power. I am American and I don't feel ashamed finding fault with my country; those are our duties as citizens. A quote for you: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt Nordican: I disagree with you as well... I live in the borough of Queens, NYC, which is the most highly concentrated melting pot in the world and personally, I do not like where this melting pot is going. Your vision of ditching country borders and being one enormous country sounds like a nightmare to me; and an incredibly boring world to live in. Why? Here is an analogy. If you take a dozen ingredients and put them into a stew, and keep it simmering for hours and hours, what happens? Each individual ingredient loses its own identity, and the whole thing becomes a big bland soup. And that is the world you dream of, apparently. That is also how I happen to see America; especially after having seen a little taste of Europe. Have you travelled to Europe? Those European influences you site remain sharp in Europe, while in America those influences have melted into the background. The people in Pennsylvania do not seem so German to me, at all! First generation immigrants, sure, but certainly not their children. The resulting American culture has little to do with its original Euro influences; the culture is corporate. The culture that is being exported (and rightfully scorned) is all about Nike and McDonald's, not about thousands of years of developed culture as is the case with the other hemisphere! Do you want to see all the lutefisk, borscht, sushi, etc. of the world replaced by McDonald's hamburgers?! I don't! The world is currently a beautiful place because the mix of cultures is a colorful MOSAIC, separated by clear borders, and NOT a soup. America is a bland soup. I would not wish that on the rest of the world! Just think about this: you find yourself here presumably because you love Korpiklaani. Korpiklaani is quite obviously a phenomenon of Finnish culture. Do you think a band like this could ever come from America (even from Americans of Finnish descent), or from a homogenized, Americized world like you dream of? As the Brits might say... not bloody likely!
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on Jun 29, 2007 10:15:52 GMT 2
Yes but in America we've developed our OWN cultures. The world is forever changing. Personally, I think that the creation of new cultures based on old ones isn't a bad thing, it's been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. Look at Greece for example, how many true Spartans do you see? None, but Greek culture as a whole has been influenced by it's ancestral one and that of ancient Macedon and other surrounding countries. It's an entirely new, contemporary culture built on the ruins of an older one. Cultures die every few hundred years, wether it be as small as the disco era or an entire civilization, it doesn't matter.
EDIT: o and that was @ a kat person btw
JUST IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW. Which you probably did. So. Hi.
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Ǽcen
Eagle
Posts: 168
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Post by Ǽcen on Jul 7, 2007 10:56:41 GMT 2
Ǽcen: I think you're mistaken about America's war history. What about all of those military interventions in central and south America? For example the Iran Contra scandal? Was that an honest struggle in your opinion? What international organization backed that one up? How about the Vietnam war? I don't think you'll find many people thinking that was an "honest" struggle. Am I wrong here? While it is true that historically Europe as a colonial force has a much, much more gruesome history, we are talking about the PRESENT time, and in the present time Europe has reformed itself, while America continues to behave like a 19th century colonial power. I am American and I don't feel ashamed finding fault with my country; those are our duties as citizens. A quote for you: The Vietnam War was a result of the fear of communism during the cold war. Without the factions of NATO and the Warsaw pact, the tension to contain communism would not have been as strong. Also, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and China fought against the US through the Viet Cong. Not to mention that troops from Australia, New Zealand, The Philippines, and Thailand were also present in the south. There's also 22 other countries with troops in Iraq right now. I don't mean to deny that the United States has been involved in foreign affairs, but I think it's very unfair and insensitive to single us out when plenty of other nations have done their fair share of meddling.
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on Jul 10, 2007 18:55:17 GMT 2
Ǽcen: I don't mean to deny that the United States has been involved in foreign affairs, but I think it's very unfair and insensitive to single us out when plenty of other nations have done their fair share of meddling. I agree. Our biggest and most staunch opponent was/is France. Who here can remember France in Algeria? Or however many times France has sent her Foreign Legion off to do it's dirty work? The first Gulf War excluded some European countries from participating because they sold Iraq their current inventory of military hardware. So on a whole round-about scale of complete idiocy and otherwise dumbassery... 70% of Europe is right there with the United States which they often scoff at. Pot, meet kettle.
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Post by A Kat Person on Jul 27, 2007 21:58:10 GMT 2
Nordican - it's perfectly cool that America has developed its own culture; the only thing I have a problem with is that it seems to extinguish the cultures of the rest of the world! Like a big metastasis. THAT is what I have a problem with. When I visit Europe, I want to see Europe, not America II! If I go to France, I want French coffee, not Starbucks! Etc... @both of you, regarding meddling/foreign affairs: as I said, I totally agree that many European nations have done an aggregious amount of meddling in the past. France in Algeria is a particularly atrocious example of that. However, Europe has changed a lot. They have been fessing up to their crimes, and trying to make up for past wrongs (why do you think France lets in so many people from their former colonies, and gives them welfare? not that I think it's a great solution, but I could see why they would do it...) And no one seems more contrite about former wrongdoing than Germany! So, it seems to me that Europe has reformed a lot - and unfortunately America has picked up where Europe left off. I suppose on the one hand Europeans complaining about American imperialism might seem like hypocrisy, but on the other hand, I think it's analogous to adults scolding their children for commiting the same wrongs they did when they were young (and now trying to urge them not to make the same mistakes!). So, I'm just saying that instead of being a "young upstart," America should listen to its Elders (European countries) since obviously European countries have existed for FAR LONGER than America has, and thus have accumulated much collective experience that should be learned from.... As for many troops from Europe joining U.S. troops in Iraq: numerically, those barely count! They are "token" troops, sent to passify the U.S. government. Go look up the actual numbers of European troops in Iraq; most countries sent troops there numbering less than 100!!! They did it for political reasons, to stay friendly with the U.S. government, not because they believe in this war. And in many cases (especially in Western Europe) the troops were sent against the people's will. Just look at Tony Blair, he seems to be hated by many people, how many Brits do you think actually believe this was a good idea, to join the U.S.? Only Americans (and maybe some Eastern Europeans) are so gung-ho about this. Why do you think Cheney insulted "Old Europe?" Because "Old Europe" did not want to go along with his war. Only some of the Eastern European countries actually want to go along with this, and even then I suspect it's because of economic reasons; the U.S. being a useful ally.
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on Jul 29, 2007 23:40:15 GMT 2
Nordican - it's perfectly cool that America has developed its own culture; the only thing I have a problem with is that it seems to extinguish the cultures of the rest of the world! Like I said before, this is not new. Cultures die, the strong ones make a mark on history and occasionally get to have their architectural and aesthetic design principles revived by afternoon home makeover television shows. Fun. When I visit Europe, I want to see Europe, not America II! If I go to France, I want French coffee, not Starbucks! Etc... Let me rephrase what I said, cultures don't really die as much as they just turn over and show you their un-tanned asses. Trust me, the ways of people won't suddenly stop just because they sip on a Starbucks coffee or go to a Wal-Mart. Do you honestly know what you're implying? Give me a break, I have to give the European countries a lot more credit than what you're apparently handing them. "Oh! America's going to stomp the piss right out of their 1000+ year cultural traditions with a few coffee cups and a fast food chain!" No. @both of you, regarding meddling/foreign affairs: as I said, I totally agree that many European nations have done an aggregious amount of meddling in the past. France in Algeria is a particularly atrocious example of that. However, Europe has changed a lot. They have been fessing up to their crimes, and trying to make up for past wrongs If countries were people, they'd be children. Seriously, the struggle between countries ALWAYS WILL BE on par with afternoon recess. They're not making up for past wrongs, they're just temporarily stopping the shenanigans until the world is looking the other way. An example of this: (why do you think France lets in so many people from their former colonies, and gives them welfare? not that I think it's a great solution, but I could see why they would do it...) Oh? So the anger and resentment of the French government by it's people during that time had NOTHING to do with it? Or the fact that in twenty five years the children of those refugees would be so pissed off at <country> that they form their own little terrorist club and have club meetings in crowded subways and buildings? Oh and did I mention they love to bring bombs with them? Yeah. However, you make a valid point in... And no one seems more contrite about former wrongdoing than Germany! True, but Germany has become VERY strict. I can't even wear my religious symbols on my person because of the Nazi usage of them. HURRR. So, it seems to me that Europe has reformed a lot - and unfortunately America has picked up where Europe left off. By reformed do you mean the witch burnings and religious intolerance of the Dark Ages or the era of colonization that honestly was one of the most economically promising tmes in our history? Or do you mean the AFTERMATH of the colonization and the fascism, socialism and other bullshitisms that seem to flock about when things are going great. Let me remind you, the United States has been JUST as colony-oriented as everybody else, the only difference is we recieved all of the rest of the world's unwanted individuals, criminals or refugees. Of course this is all fine and dandy for us to be recievers of culture but if we dare export (and I use that term loosely since we're talking about fucking McDonald's) we're suddenly huge assholes? What? That doesn't seem fair, but it's okay since we're obviously deserving. We got so powerful after 1938, from a depression onwards. So since we were on top we deserve to get taken down a peg or two, right? No. I suppose on the one hand Europeans complaining about American imperialism might seem like hypocrisy, but on the other hand, I think it's analogous to adults scolding their children for commiting the same wrongs they did when they were young (and now trying to urge them not to make the same mistakes!). What mistakes? Setting up in a new place that just happened to have spear-chucking natives? Look at those poor, poor native people now. They're using cellphones, participating in the global exonomy and otherwise living a pretty good life. HOW HORRIBLE. Imperialism spread both decadence and civility to the world. We can only thank the major European powers for interlocking us and paving the way for years of hardcore diplomacy that probably has somehow saved us from a nuclear war. So, I'm just saying that instead of being a "young upstart," America should listen to its Elders (European countries) since obviously European countries have existed for FAR LONGER than America has, and thus have accumulated much collective experience that should be learned from.... I'm 20 years old. My dad is 43. He's a complete, ignorant moron. See where I'm going with this? <ENTIRE THING ABOUT IRAQ WAR> Popular support for the Iraq war has always been low, dear. The only reason why I'm vehement against leaving is it'll turn into a huge civil war and people will get killed. Let the Iraqi's build their system up, then let them deal with themselves. They DESERVE the chance at having a democracy and peace, they've earned it with years of bloodshed and tyranny. So to anyone who says "nuke em all!" or "we should just get out now" I say to you: Go to hell. Anything in this post that could be taken as a personal attack isn't. I re-read it and decided that it was too awesome to delete, but I do sound kinda mean. I just disagree with you entirely, but I respect your position.
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Orca
Wolfcub
Wolf of the Sea
Posts: 8
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Post by Orca on Dec 25, 2007 10:33:08 GMT 2
It is a sad state of things if the world's leaders are taking tips from a government that is borderline fascist. The US government has given itself the power to tap citizens phones without warrant, arrest anyone in it's lands and hold them without reason, trial by jury, etc. if suspected of "Terrorist Activities" (example, a Canadian citizen was picked off the streets and held in a Philippine prison, or so my English teacher tells). On top of it all, our president is mentally retarded, our vice president is Satan's left testicle, we've gone from a 9 billion dollar surplus (thats 9 billion in the bank) at the end of the Clinton administration to an almost 1 trillion dollar deficit due to our current leaders. We spend 13 million dollars A DAY on a war waged to control the middle east's oil. Oh, and we are invading Afghanistan. All in all, fuck the US and all its former glory. We are a nation raised on blood. First of Indians, now of Iraqis. Who's next?
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