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Post by Humppaporo on Mar 30, 2005 20:25:18 GMT 2
i listened to it. the long word is really funny. it seems taht you were tired of saying the word. I thought that you were smiling during the pronounciation... Sounds great! I've listened to it about 40 times now and in härmä: the ä sounds just like our (Dutch) a"kärpänen" counts the same for, but you put the stress on the last syllable, I've read somewhere that in Finnish it's always on the first, is that wrong? "epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydellänsäkäänköhän" It's a great word, I can't even read along with your pronounciation, too difficult, but really funny. What does it mean? I hear: epäj ä[/color]rjestelmällistytt ämättömyydellänsäkäänköhän The yellow ä sounds for me like the Dutch 'e' (short ee), the others also like the 'a' (short Dutch aa). Does it depend on the position in the word or the surrounding characters? Perkele...this is difficult ;D
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Post by Hellga on Mar 30, 2005 20:41:40 GMT 2
that word or sentence exist??? its kinda funny ;D
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Post by frostheim on Mar 30, 2005 21:07:47 GMT 2
"kärpänen" counts the same for, but you put the stress on the last syllable, I've read somewhere that in Finnish it's always on the first, is that wrong? The stress is always on the first syllable, although "p" in the middle syllable (kär-pä-nen) is pronounced quite hard as it's that way in Finnish language in general. "epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydellänsäkäänköhän" It's a great word, I can't even read along with your pronounciation, too difficult, but really funny. What does it mean? The word divided in smaller constructional elements:Epä-järjestelmä-llis-ty-ttä-mättö-myy-de-llä-nsä-kään-kö-hän: prefix:Epä = "un" the main word:järjestelmä = "a system" (järki [substantive] = "sense", järjestää [verb] = "to put in order") suffixes:-llis = like in the verb järjestelmällistää = a sort of a meaning "to make it become a system / in order" -ty = like in the substantive järjestelmällistys = "the action of making something to become a system / in order" -ttä = like in the verb järjestelmällistyttää = "to make somebody else to make it to become a system / in order" -mättö = like in an adjective järjestelmällistyttämätön = a negation: "something that has not being made to become a system / in order" -myy = järjestelmällistyttämättömyys = here meaning "a state or a condition where it has not being made to become a system / in order" -de = an inflection that belongs to certain words in certain situations, ie. käsi (a hand) -> kädellä (on a hand, with a hand...) -llä = possession suffix, "with (somebodys) epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyys" -nsä = an addition to the possession suffix, a bit of dialectic/poetic/eloquent expedient/style -kään = a sort of a meaning "not even with" -kö = a suffix for expressing a question -hän = meaning: a suffix to express one's attitude of finding something to be kind of self-evident OR a question-like guess-work of trying to find out if something is really as one has thought ;D The word is grammatically right, but the IRL situation would be totally absurd and impossible. Here can thus be seen that Finnish is a very complex language; much of small and significant matters concerning attitudes, starting-points, purposes, meanings etc. in every possible hall. Does it depend on the position in the word or the surrounding characters? Yes; as You know, (certain) vowels are pronounced either "front" or "back" (in mouth) depending on the vowel harmony in a word; in Finnish a front vowel in a syllable demands a front vowel in the following syllable too, and the same with the back vowels. Btw. ie. Estonian language doesn't have this kind of grammatical rule, although both these two belong to the Baltic-Finnic group of the Finno-Ugric languages.
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Post by Humppaporo on Mar 30, 2005 21:21:14 GMT 2
Thanks a lot! This is although difficult, really interesting! As usual, more questions come up while I'm reading this. I often wondered how to find the stem of a Finnish word. käsi (a hand) -> kädellä (on a hand, with a hand...)That's the problem I often encounter: searching for a Finnish word (online or in my dictionary booklet) and nopt able to find it, because I'm not able to determine the stem. I know, I should know more, a lot more about the grammar. I've read about it in my dictionary, a summary...but for me too complex and to short. I'd love to know more though. Maybe one conjugation or case at a day
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Post by Hellga on Mar 30, 2005 21:38:45 GMT 2
The stress is always on the first syllable, although "p" in the middle syllable (kär-pä-nen) is pronounced quite hard as it's that way in Finnish language in general. The word divided in smaller constructional elements:Epä-järjestelmä-llis-ty-ttä-mättö-myy-de-llä-nsä-kään-kö-hän: prefix:Epä = "un" the main word:järjestelmä = "a system" (järki [substantive] = "sense", järjestää [verb] = "to put in order") suffixes:-llis = like in the verb järjestelmällistää = a sort of a meaning "to make it become a system / in order" -ty = like in the substantive järjestelmällistys = "the action of making something to become a system / in order" -ttä = like in the verb järjestelmällistyttää = "to make somebody else to make it to become a system / in order" -mättö = like in an adjective järjestelmällistyttämätön = a negation: "something that has not being made to become a system / in order" -myy = järjestelmällistyttämättömyys = here meaning "a state or a condition where it has not being made to become a system / in order" -de = an inflection that belongs to certain words in certain situations, ie. käsi (a hand) -> kädellä (on a hand, with a hand...) -llä = possession suffix, "with (somebodys) epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyys" -nsä = an addition to the possession suffix, a bit of dialectic/poetic/eloquent expedient/style -kään = a sort of a meaning "not even with" -kö = a suffix for expressing a question -hän = meaning: a suffix to express one's attitude of finding something to be kind of self-evident OR a question-like guess-work of trying to find out if something is really as one has thought ;D The word is grammatically right, but the IRL situation would be totally absurd and impossible. Here can thus be seen that Finnish is a very complex language; much of small and significant matters concerning attitudes, starting-points, purposes, meanings etc. in every possible hall. Yes; as You know, (certain) vowels are pronounced either "front" or "back" (in mouth) depending on the vowel harmony in a word; in Finnish a front vowel in a syllable demands a front vowel in the following syllable too, and the same with the back vowels. Btw. ie. Estonian language doesn't have this kind of grammatical rule, although both these two belong to the Baltic-Finnic group of the Finno-Ugric languages. Understood pal..! ;D there are alot things i can not understand still but i guess, ill learn it very soon!
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Post by frostheim on Mar 30, 2005 22:24:33 GMT 2
Understood pal..! ;D there are alot things i can not understand still but i guess, ill learn it very soon! Learning all this and much more takes very much time and mostly requires years of studies in the university and of course a good conception for languages in general. These are absolutely not simple nor easy matters. I've studied numerous different languages for almost 3 years now, and at the moment I still have 3-4 years left to become a qualified teacher in my mothers tongue (Finnish).
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Post by Hellga on Mar 31, 2005 7:04:10 GMT 2
Learning all this and much more takes very much time and mostly requires years of studies in the university and of course a good conception for languages in general. These are absolutely not simple nor easy matters. I've studied numerous different languages for almost 3 years now, and at the moment I still have 3-4 years left to become a qualified teacher in my mothers tongue (Finnish). im not saying exactly that im going to learn finnish tomorrow.. and the next week i'll be a teacher of Finnish language.. ;D ;D hehe dont get me wrong pal, but at least i liked to learn somthings you said it that i didn't knew.. At least i know: kään = a sort of a meaning "not even with" hehehe ;D pffff....
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Turre
Clansman
Posts: 212
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Post by Turre on Mar 31, 2005 8:11:18 GMT 2
käsi (a hand) -> kädellä (on a hand, with a hand...) BTW. "kädellä" also means wanking, only in speaking language though
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Post by MaliceGarden on Mar 31, 2005 10:24:39 GMT 2
frost, you are beating dave with your posts. thks for the explanations!
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Post by frostheim on Mar 31, 2005 11:37:44 GMT 2
im not saying exactly that im going to learn finnish tomorrow.. and the next week i'll be a teacher of Finnish language.. ;D ;D hehe dont get me wrong pal, but at least i liked to learn somthings you said it that i didn't knew.. Heh, don't get me wrong; I didn't got any kind of picture from your sayings that you whould do it all tomorrow; I only brought up the fact that studying and learning languages in usual preconceives hard work and naturally takes its time. frost, you are beating dave with your posts. thks for the explanations! Hehe, thanks!
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Post by twilightheart on Apr 1, 2005 6:46:37 GMT 2
Hellga and Frostheim, you can contact each other by PM or mail, if you wanna "discuss" further ... not here please. Thanx!
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Post by Bisclav on Apr 1, 2005 19:45:13 GMT 2
Back to topic:)
Native - Polish
Good - English, Russian
Less - German
Bad - French, Portugese, Spanish
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Post by MaliceGarden on Apr 2, 2005 12:15:45 GMT 2
ah, sim?! fala portugues. i'll translate it later.
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Post by Hellga on Apr 2, 2005 17:24:39 GMT 2
Back to topic:) Native - Polish Good - English, Russian Less - German Bad - French, Portugese, Spanish is spanish bad? -------> no pal, its a good language, and i dont say it because i speak it, but i agree you french is bad, ;D
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Post by frostheim on Apr 2, 2005 17:29:19 GMT 2
Probably he meant that he don't know Spanish so well; not that it would be bad as a language.
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