Lyrics in English versa lyrics in native language

[wolferin]

Well, I like lyrics in native language, though I don't understand some of them. Especially in folk-metal, the lyrics in native language express better the feelings, sound more convinsing. I like lyrics in English, of course, I can understand them and sing with the group (though I try in some other languages as well ;D). The music is universal language and it's not always the most important to understand the words. But it's good to have translations in English, they help the people to accept the lyrics in other languages. Some groups singing in native language, except Korpiklaani, which I like: Finntroll, Ajatara, Nightwish and Tarja Turunen, Glittertind, TYR, Volkolak, Moonsorrow, Fjällstorm, Arkona, Orphaned Land, Metsatöll,etc.

[HerraHirwi]

When the question is about making music based on own ethnic culture, folklore and folk music traditions, there's no other option than to make lyrics with your native language. You run with feed you learn to walk.

In your native language you can express yourself better than any other language. This goes also in other genres than "folk" or ethnic metal - or even metal in general. That's why I've all my life found much better music sung in native language, specially here in Finland. Then again - of course in basic metal genres, like the 80's heavy metal, thrash or death metal, it's the one and same for which language this is sung - because those are quite universal music styles. But if it's done in the native language and the lyrics are striking, the better it is! And when listening to good CD, sung ie. in Mbabarami language (with booklet translations), you'll be able to learn a little that language, which I find very nice - specially in this globalazing world. That fact has helped ie. myself much learning later in school those foreign languages which I previously had heard only from the CD; in my case Estonian, North-Sámi, Hungarian, Tuvinian etc.

For me it's not a problem to make a good lyrics in my native tongue, since I've written my own poems and stories since I was 10-years old. I read much different kind of literature and I write much in different magazines, so my writing skills are in everyday use. I made the Finnish lyrics for our thrash metal band VMMA as I was a youngster; in that time there weren't so much Finnish singing metal bands as there's now. Lately I've written for myself much stuff, that isn't anymore straightly so "folkloristic" or "ethnic", but very absurd stuff, which I think it would fit better ie. in death or doom metal. It would be interesting to do something like that in the future. But don't worry, of course with Poropetra and Korpiklaani, my Finnish lyrics will be the same continuum as before, reflecting my ways to see Finno-Ugric languages and old traditions in different ages.

[jarmo]

Music that is meant to spread a certain atmosphere, more that some (political) statement, should be in native language, for the reason Virva mentioned. But for music which shoudl spread a message all over the world, should be mostly in english, so that they reach more people.

Same goes for the music itself... melody, additional instruments etc.
More ethnic-based (native) music will and should use more native instruments, because they support the atmosphere better than universal instruments (Mandolin in Rise, and violin and accordeon in most songs...). With reaching the most people, they all use the standard insturments, and the standard instruments only... (guitar, drum, and some computer stuff... basically)

[cpuguru]

For bands that sing in their native languages as well as English, like Korpiklaani, I generally prefer the music in their native languages. It is not that the translation does not make sense, usually it is not perfect but doesn't detract much from the song, rather some of the emotion and impact of the music is removed. Listening to Kädet siipinä you know that it is a sombre and reflective theme, being sung in Finnish just adds to the power and the authenticity of the song.

Music is a universal language and we can learn so much about each other through music. As the world gets smaller and smaller, figuratively speaking, it is nice to experience different cultures and escape the same monotonous, boring crap.

[raika]

I have always been a fan of native language users, in music and poetry and stuff like that. So I think the lyrics in the native language are better. There will most probably be a fansite somewhere which offers translations to the songs.

by the way, this is my first post

I especially love the Finnish language, so I want to hear it as much as possible. Although I personally also prefer to sing in English (I'm in a choir), and I write in English too (songs and poems.. ..yeah, guess I'm just another whimp ) because it's easier for me to express myself and my feelings in English than in Dutch, my mother tongue.. I guess I'm not alone at that aspect..

[magnas]

I write lyrics mostly in English, but I wrote some in Czech and I found out, that sometimes some lyrics cannot be written in certain language, for example, I don`t like czech metal lyrics, especialy heavy or gothic metal sound very silly, but I love czech folk music. So I think, that is very important, what do you want to write and then chose the language.

[HerraHirwi]

I think the biggest problem why people are using English rather than own native language, is the cold fact that most of the popular music - including rock and metal - is sung in English. Many times that may lead in assumption that English may sound better than your own native language, although one would otherwise favour own native language. And if one would like to do something in native language, English influence can still be so enormous, that one may start to write an own native language like English and to same extent if one uses English only because it sounds "better" or "cooler" or that it may feel easier, the syntax and grammar may still be from your own native language. That's what's the situation is ie. in with many Finnish bands.

But you have to remember that culture of Finnish rock and metal lyrics is very young, when comparing it into the Anglo-American one. Rock has been made in English since the 50's and the influences and many of rock'n'roll themes have already been in use earlier in old blues and country music - and in English. In Finland there's been written rock lyrics in Finnish from the 70's - and old Finnish music culture has influenced in it only a little. In metal lyrics it's the same. Heavy metal has been done with English lyrics from the early 70's - and it's elements are from psychedelic rock music, electric blues music and from old rock'n'roll (and they'v been naturally in English too). In Finland there's been made metal in Finnish in most parts only from the end of the 90's (major expection from this is of course Sarcofagus with Moottorilinnut -album, which was made already in 1981). I think it's quite a young phenomenon in Finnish music culture afterall - it's mainly only 10 years old.

I remember as I first started to make my own first metal lyrics (in Finnish), I've always been thinking since then how a Finn would say some thing; in Finnish you can say with one long word the same thing as English would demand a whole sentence, Finnish metrical system isn't good for a rhyme's as we have more alliterative metric system etc. Good lyrics in own native language (no matter what musical genre) will come naturally, as you make clear for yourself how the system of your native language acts.

My own favourite lyricists from Finnish rock music, which have influenced my own work, are the ones who have developed the Finnish rock poetry most as a Finn would do it: Ismo Alanko, A.W.Yrjänä, Kauko Röyhkä and Tuomari Nurmio. Good Finnish metal lyrics I've liked are from early Kotiteollisuus and from Viikate. And of course Sarcofagus!! And as I read enormously literature, poetry etc. it'll influence also as well.

[A Kat Person]

I am in agreement with everyone else here, I love to hear music using the musicians' native language. Not only does this allow the vocalist to sing with a more true expression, but the beauty of the foreign language to my ears is like another instrumental layer in the music; thus, not focusing on the lyrical meaning allows me to appreciate the nuances of the language and the quality of the voice. My favorite languages to hear in music include Finnish, any Scandinavian language, German, Latin, and French. Russian, too, but I understand Russian so it doesn't count in this context Also, whenever there is an opportunity to hear something in a language that is more unusual, such as Sami or a Native American tribal language, or some music that involves an unusual native type of singing (for example, Joik or Tuvan throat singing) then I always jump at the chance to hear it!!

Sometimes I wonder why foreign bands bother singing in English. Do they like English? Or do they figure they have a greater chance at popularity, since English is understood by so many? Would Nightwish or Children of Bodom, for example, have become so popular had they stuck to singing entirely in Finnish?

Aside from Korpiklaani, here is a sampling of bands whom I love for their use of their native languages: Moonsorrow, Finntroll, Asmegin, Lumsk, Otyg, Viikate, Tenhi, Dornenreich... I love all these bands very much, and I even think they wouldn't be quite as good if they were to sing in English! Their languages really add to the atmosphere of their music.

In particular, I also admire bands who actively use language as a very important component of their music. For example, I admire very much what Nostatus and Poropetra here do, as well as Eluveitie who as I understand it have reconstructed a lost language to use for their songs! Also, I very much admire bands who use their knowledge of multiple languages in their lyrics, for example In Extremo and Solefald!

[phoenixfire]

To be honest, and at first thought, I would say English. There are actually so many factors to judge when listening to the music...First of all, it depends on how comercial a band is or would like to be, I mean, someone who'd like to be in charts and give messages all over the world would certianly choose singing in English. Or just an artist who wants to be "in tone" with the others, to follow some kind of a musical fashion. But someone who really cares about his culture and really wants to express its esence and its most important part, will choose the native language, even if he's sure that maybe not so many will like the song. But this is another thing to be discussed, it also depends on the listener.
I, for example, would feel better if I were to understand the lyrics and the actual, the concrete meaning, but at a deeper thought, I think nothing is as important as the atmosphere of that certain culture. And exactly the fact you don't understand and you just listen to the music and try to figure out what is the meaning, makes it more exciting. To search for the sense yourself.

[Nordican]

cpuguru said:

It is not that the translation does not make sense, usually it is not perfect but doesn't detract much from the song, rather some of the emotion and impact of the music is removed.

Jonne's accent is hillariously awesome. It's so thick, when he sings I INSTANTLY think of beer.

(please don't ban me D: that was a compliment.. I like beer D:)

I disagree, though, because it shouldn't matter what language it is in, the point of the song is still there. The entire thing still has it's own "soul" so to speak so why would it's language be detremenial to it? Granted, if you tried to sing Kirki in English, you'd fail miserably because Finnish goes with the music. However I think with a number of songs you can put it in to just about any language and it'd still be that same powerful song.

I just have the general opinion that Korpiklaani sings what feels right. I say anybody who's an artist should trust their feelings and express accordingly.

[frostheim]

allah said:

I disagree, though, because it shouldn't matter what language it is in, the point of the song is still there. The entire thing still has it's own "soul" so to speak so why would it's language be detremenial to it? Granted, if you tried to sing Kirki in English, you'd fail miserably because Finnish goes with the music. However I think with a number of songs you can put it in to just about any language and it'd still be that same powerful song.

At least for my own part I consider namely the language being one of the most essential factors in my own music; self-evidently I know my mother tongue best of all the languages I've become familiar with in my life so far, thus it's the most natural, meaningful and consistent choice above all to express my very own feelings, thoughts and verbal mindstreams. The essential nature of the language is even more emphasized when I use the old Finnic runo-singing metrics in my songs; such couldn't ever work anywhere else than in the Finnic languages (Finnish, Estonian, Karelian etc.) what it comes to the nature of the old traditional metric style and system as a whole. The choice of language is also the means for me to preserve, keep up and even develop further something that is strongly and firmly related to my own culture, its traditions and heritage, thus I would never, ever imagine myself writing any lyrics in eg. English myself. However, all the languages are very different afterall, thus they also work differently in reflecting the ways of all the thinking, observing and semantical matters compared to each other. In the end I couldn't really care less if someone wouldn't understand my lyrics at all; they're far from easyones even for native Finnish speakers and also more or less impossible to be translated to any other languages without losing most of everything that I consider essential, important and meaningful for myself and for the very songs I've made.

[Ǽcen]

A language is part of the folklore. It adds so much more to the music, and gives it more of an exotic and powerful feel to not understand the words. Even for folk bands from the UK, US, Canada, etc., I think it's much cooler to sing in the original Anglo-Saxon tongue, since a lot of English folklore dates from the Dark Ages.

[Nordican]

frostheim said:

allah said:

I disagree, though, because it shouldn't matter what language it is in, the point of the song is still there. The entire thing still has it's own "soul" so to speak so why would it's language be detremenial to it? Granted, if you tried to sing Kirki in English, you'd fail miserably because Finnish goes with the music. However I think with a number of songs you can put it in to just about any language and it'd still be that same powerful song.

At least for my own part I consider namely the language being one of the most essential factors in my own music; self-evidently I know my mother tongue best of all the languages I've become familiar with in my life so far, thus it's the most natural, meaningful and consistent choice above all to express my very own feelings, thoughts and verbal mindstreams. The essential nature of the language is even more emphasized when I use the old Finnic runo-singing metrics in my songs; such couldn't ever work anywhere else than in the Finnic languages (Finnish, Estonian, Karelian etc.) what it comes to the nature of the old traditional metric style and system as a whole. The choice of language is also the means for me to preserve, keep up and even develop further something that is strongly and firmly related to my own culture, its traditions and heritage, thus I would never, ever imagine myself writing any lyrics in eg. English myself. However, all the languages are very different afterall, thus they also work differently in reflecting the ways of all the thinking, observing and semantical matters compared to each other. In the end I couldn't really care less if someone wouldn't understand my lyrics at all; they're far from easyones even for native Finnish speakers and also more or less impossible to be translated to any other languages without losing most of everything that I consider essential, important and meaningful for myself and for the very songs I've made.

Honestly, I wouldn't know. I can't write songs very well, but I can sing (sort of). My "culture" is just a big mix of everything Nordic, honestly, so I have no "native tongue" that would necissitate the word "native." I don't fully understand where you're coming from, but I understand your point. Forgive me for my ignorance, but I don't know of any of your songs... Somehow, though, I think you'll just reveal that you're in Korpiklaani and I'll feel like a complete idiot.

[frostheim]

allah said:

I don't fully understand where you're coming from, but I understand your point.

I'm completely Finnish and having the Finnish language as my mother tongue.

allah said:

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I don't know of any of your songs... Somehow, though, I think you'll just reveal that you're in Korpiklaani and I'll feel like a complete idiot.

Heh, I'm not in the band, although I know most of the members and they're also good friends of mine. I've got my own band Nostatus, about which there's also a thread here:
> jonne.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=ChitChat&action=display&thread=1115941342