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Post by Helran on Feb 28, 2007 10:21:38 GMT 2
It's topic to know you religion or spirituality. I discovered that I'm animiste since few years by a french site " Free French-speaking pagan assembly". Because I believe in soul (spirit) in all of alive creature (it's good english ?), kingdom vegetal and animal. I think, there're two things : The body/conscious; the Soul/unconscious. And when you make something unconsciously, it's in fact your soul he makes it. I think, the souls communicate between them. That why you like or dislike person just when you see it. You understand ? It's difficulte to speak about this in english. And It's difficulte to speak about animism, because I don't know nobody who understand that or they say about me that I'm crazy. (I'm crazy in fact!)
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Post by Lionheart on Feb 28, 2007 10:25:42 GMT 2
Religion or spirituality... also very interesting As for me... I believe in what I can prove. Which basically means that I don't believe in any god(s), souls etc etc. Nice and simple
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 28, 2007 11:31:11 GMT 2
@helran: you are clear enough What you say comes close to my believes also. I believe in 'souls/spirits' of everything alive and strongly in all powers of nature. Consequently we should respect everything alive. I mean f.e. no thougthless destruction, waste or damage to anything alive, or even to what is not alive... (water, wind, stones, air etc, also nature) Everything /everyone is involved in this and cannot be set apart from this. Only most people don't realise. Of course we can, and even have to use parts of nature, we are also part of it ourselves. But let's do that in a respectful and sensible way. I hardly talk about this, because for most people a tree is just a thing that grows in your garden and when it gets to big, you just chop it off, and of course complain about the leaves every autumn. Animals are nice on television, or as a little dog to cuddle. Everything wild is scary for many people, and should be wiped out. Most people want to control everthing, and never get the idea, that wind, rain, soil, fire, trees and animals are also good in themselves, not just as something for people to use. You will also have experienced i guess, that people just don't understand, and also that people look at you if you are mad. That's why i usually don't talk about this. and of course... I am also mad *edit: I actually have never tried to figure out if my 'belief' has a name, i have no idea.
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Post by ina on Feb 28, 2007 12:12:46 GMT 2
First of all, I really like this topic! Thank you Helran! I study theology/religion as one of my main subjects in school so it's always interesting to talk about spiritual things. I'm a Lutheran Protestant, which is not a suprise because about 85% from the population of my country are lutherans. I've never taken a confirmation though, so i cannot be a godmother or have a church wedding... Maybe time will show how i'll handle it...for me it's not even important because the belief comes from the heart and it doesn't need any of those things like babtism to prove it...About God...yes, I do believe that there is some greater force which cannot be described. No human can understand it and it's meant to be a mystery till we die. Like Helran and Humppaporo said, God(s) must be connected to the nature and we have to respect it because without nature we wouldn't be able to survive...We were meant to live in the nature without this modern nonsense surronding us...If we keep on like this, we will kill the people living after us and all the other living things as well.. Lionheart, I used to think like you! I can understand your point of view very well, but there are some people who can't live without a God and i think that I'm one of them... I'm also interested in religion as a science and it's very interesting to read about history of the christian faith or about the ancient beliefs of the ancestors.
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Post by Helran on Feb 28, 2007 12:39:16 GMT 2
(water, wind, stones, air etc, also nature) Water, wind, stones, fire, air... They're Gods for my. I don't believe in a "Person" or "gods who are good or bad". In fact my gods it's the different Power/Might/Force (I don't find a name of it) of nature.
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Post by frostheim on Feb 28, 2007 13:08:38 GMT 2
I've never been a religious nor spiritual person in any ways; I've never found anything such being suitable, natural or sensible for myself as I haven't born to or lived in circumstances where such matters would ever have had any role for real, thus I've always walked my very own path unbound and independent of any kind of religious etc. matters. I'm a realist by nature and always been into use of common sense and strived for concentrating on the essential matters only in everything I do.
Of course I've always been extremely interested in the so called shamanistic, animistic and totemistic way of thinking and the whole view of the world namely among the arctic hunter-gatherer and nomad peoples, as I've studied their languages and also cultures in the university for years already, but everything such is naturally handled and managed via academic and scientific research and "feet on the ground", which suits me and my own interests, desires, purposes etc. best above anything else.
EDIT: I believe in The Masters of the Universe, Transformers, Bravestarr, Knight Rider, Hulk Hogan and McGyver. ;D
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Post by janneke on Feb 28, 2007 14:18:25 GMT 2
Religion or spirituality... also very interesting As for me... I believe in what I can prove. Which basically means that I don't believe in any god(s), souls etc etc. Nice and simple We're just atheïsts ;D
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Post by Lionheart on Feb 28, 2007 14:48:29 GMT 2
@kuuraparta: Ow yessss transformers!!! ina : For me I know I can't live with the fact that there is something which... I can't verify. My mom was a christian, I've been going to a christian school etc. but it never... appealed to me. Though still it interests me as of why people put their faith into something of which I can't verify the existence. Whether it's into God, Allah, Vishnu whatever. A very interesting topic. Only I like to look at it from a different angle. Not as much as to WHAT they are doing ( theology etc) but more as to WHY ( anthropology). Very interesting topic this
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Post by janneke on Feb 28, 2007 16:26:31 GMT 2
Personally, I can find myself in one of Karl Marx' (famous humanist) quotes:
"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
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Polka
Wolfcub
Bad English Man
Posts: 25
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Post by Polka on Feb 28, 2007 19:14:24 GMT 2
Personally, I can find myself in one of Karl Marx' (famous humanist) quotes: "Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." But, do you knew that Karl Marx was a jew?
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Post by Nordis on Feb 28, 2007 20:03:38 GMT 2
I think, there're two things : The body/conscious; the Soul/unconscious. I also believe that all beings have their own soul or a spirit, be it an invidual entity or some kind of precipitate in the energy that flows through everything. I don't agree on that consciousness thing though, since I think that subconsciousness is just the yet unknown and more powerful side of human mind. I would be too lazy to belong any organized religion if I ever found a suitable one. Not that I would even be seeking for one. When talking about religion and stuff, I often refer myself as a "good day's pagan". To hell with all wicca stuff and new age crap, but next weekend there's a complete solstice of the moon --> What a great reason to have a party! ;D
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 28, 2007 21:30:05 GMT 2
Personally, I can find myself in one of Karl Marx' (famous humanist) quotes: "Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." But, do you knew that Karl Marx was a jew? What on earth has that to do with it? Imo is it a stupid thing to say about a human being, as if he would be better or worse by belonging to a certain race / group / haircolor, whatever. It is about people and minds, thoughts, spirits and feelings. Please don't pidgeonhole people. No one deserves more or less credits, only based on facts that he/she cannot do anything aboout. Nordis, i agree with you in this, and also that there is much undiscovered power ion every creature. but since when do you need a reason to party? ;D ;D
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Post by HerraHirwi on Feb 28, 2007 23:59:59 GMT 2
I've never been much of religious person. Althought I understand that there's much of things that we've not yet able to understand, but I do believe that religion has been born in the first place for to explain people how many things have been evolved. That's usual phenomenon in shamanistic/animistic/totemistic religions throughout the world. It explains all the world-creating myths etc. Actually the worship of forefathers may be the oldest religion ever. We bumped into that theory with Pekka over a year ago in our course of Sámi old religion in our department, as our teacher explained to us many of these investigated theories.
Myself I believe much in science as from the childhood I've been interested in different kind of sciences. However, I've also been always fascinated with shamanistic religions throughout the world, but speciall with Siberian shamanism. But shamanistic religions can't work in the world we now live, as they haven't been able to process with the science. The only religion I know in the world that has roots in the somewhere nearer the stone-age is in Japan, where Shintoism goes together with modern science. If one would think that shamanism would work with modern world, it would have to been developed in similar ways with the modern world as Shintoism has developed in Japan. New-age crap has nothing to do with any old religion if you ask me.
Like Pekka, I've always followed my own path with this. I do feel myself close with nature as I walk in the forest etc. And because of my interest with our primeval languages and cultures, I do keep in my mind these old Finno-Ugric beliefs all the time. But as I'm still the child of my own age, I trust in science, which goes pretty well together with these old beliefs with my university studies.
Altogether: It's important to know own past and own roots. It's important and interesting to read about old religions etc. But it's also important to make things clear oneself and think all the things with own brains. That's what we're talking about the decisions which are only to be made with oneself alone. That's what nobody can't teach to anybody. One has to follow the own path. I also do believe in Masters of the Universe. By the power of Grayskull I HAVE THE POWER!!! ;D ;D
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Post by Nordis on Mar 1, 2007 15:56:26 GMT 2
But, do you knew that Karl Marx was a jew? What on earth has that to do with it? Imo is it a stupid thing to say about a human being, as if he would be better or worse by belonging to a certain race / group / haircolor, whatever. It is about people and minds, thoughts, spirits and feelings. Please don't pidgeonhole people. No one deserves more or less credits, only based on facts that he/she cannot do anything aboout. Here we go again. NO-ONE would have cared if someone said that he was a pagan, christian, hindu or whatever. It's like "jew" has become an insult or something and no-one was allowed to even say the whole word out loud And drinking with excuse is always more fun than drinking only for the joy of getting drunk ;D
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Polka
Wolfcub
Bad English Man
Posts: 25
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Post by Polka on Mar 1, 2007 17:46:33 GMT 2
What on earth has that to do with it? Imo is it a stupid thing to say about a human being, as if he would be better or worse by belonging to a certain race / group / haircolor, whatever. It is about people and minds, thoughts, spirits and feelings. Please don't pidgeonhole people. No one deserves more or less credits, only based on facts that he/she cannot do anything aboout. Then, I'm sorry. I just question if someone knows that Karl Marx was a jew, because he was 'against' religion in him speeches.
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