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Post by Humppaporo on Mar 1, 2007 20:35:04 GMT 2
Polka: no problem You'd better should have said that he was against religion, that would also fit better in this discussion, because it is an opinion It is nice though to see how different people think about these things. Good topic! Thanks to the topic starter!
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Post by varjotuuli on Mar 2, 2007 18:06:40 GMT 2
really nice views you all have.
i think first that every thing on earth (and in university) have a "life"....also water, stone etc. what you call as dead have a soul.....without that it cannot exist.....in my opinion. And also every life you have to respect.....without respect each other there will be chaos and violent. i agree that you have to respect all kind of life here on earth.......animals are more inteligent as we humans....cause the dont destroy their home!
I always go my way, but also i like the thoughts from religions or people. When i think that is good what they are saying then i try to live like that........i dont decide between christians, jews, muslims or buddhism etc. they all are similar. but the most doctrine i like and where i learn most from is Buddhism cause this doctrin is build up on philosophy and that i like cause i discuss about things you say or want to do........i discuss if its good or bad and what will happen when i will do that.
So i am thinking a lot! ^^
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Post by Helran on Mar 3, 2007 2:44:58 GMT 2
i dont decide between christians, jews, muslims or buddhism etc. they all are similar. The difference between christians, jews, muslims and buddhism, that buddhism is not a religion it's philosophy. That's why, I don't agree whith you when you say "they all are similar".
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Post by varjotuuli on Mar 4, 2007 19:46:12 GMT 2
@helran: i know that biddhism is a philosophy but some people make gautama as a god what he never wanted but it happens some time! ^^ thats why i said their are similar
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Post by MaliceGarden on Mar 6, 2007 16:21:08 GMT 2
like the topic too. :] according to what i've read in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism) I kinda fit on the apathetic agnosticism. "Apathetic agnosticism—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God(s), but since any God(s) that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway." in portuguese, we have an expression that vgoes something like this: "it doesn't heat me up or cools me down" if it exists. i too believe in the masters of universe and transformers but i have a catholic background (as well as 96 or 98% of the rest of the portuguese).
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Post by A Kat Person on Mar 17, 2007 21:33:42 GMT 2
Nordis - I think humppaporo reacted to the Marx=Jew comment because generally, in my experience, when someone specifically points out someone's Jewishness, they mean it in some denigrating way (unless they are Jewish themselves!) I don't know if that was the case here, but because this is often the implication, perhaps anyone who makes it a point to say "so-and-so is a Jew" should state why they think that's important in the first place! Humppaporo - my initial reaction was the same as yours, I just didn't post it. Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Spirituality (NOT organized religion) is the basis for my life and everything I do is connected to it. Therefore the question is not merely an academic one at all to me. I'm not sure how to describe my spirituality - I could say maybe something like a pagan-buddhist-pantheist, but it seems limiting. Pantheism describes my general view of God: by no means do I believe in God the way most religious people do, but I am no atheist either. In essence, I believe God=The Universe=All That Is. Generally, I use God and The Universe and "All there is" interchangeably. This includes everything, including that which people generally describe as "evil". "good" and "evil" are merely one set of definitions for our view of the universe, which is dualistic in nature due to our existence in a relative, not an absolute universe. Without black, we would not know white, therefore relativity is necessary for our current state of existence; therefore dualism is a must (and as such "evil" cannot be destroyed but must remain so that we can continue to experience "good", if that is what we wish). Regarding what I think about religion: I don't think that the religions themselves (christianity-judaism-islam-etc.) are problems perse; I believe it is peoples' interpretations that are the problem. At their core, all the religions of the world are really very similar. The differences lay in individual interpretations, artificial differences created by followers. I believe that each major religion has a seed within it that is true, and that is of use to any spiritual person. However, IMHO this seed generally lies in the esoteric portion of that religion which is rejected by the majority of the followers. This includes Gnosticism in Christianity, the Kabbalah in Judaism, and Sufism in Islam. IMHO these practices are where the true value of these religions is; they are the most ancient parts of each of those religions and therefore the most pure & untainted by politics. Maybe Hinduism, and definitely Buddhism is a little bit different from 'the big three', because I think it has been less skewed by power and politics over the centuries than have the other major religions. As varjotuuli posted above, it is true that some people make Gautama into a god, but I think this has been less of a problem in Buddhism than elsewhere. For example, Jesus was probably a very enlightened fellow with lots of wisdom to share in the first place, but Christianity has completely skewed him, all but forgetting his teachings and turning him into an object of worship and not much else. Buddhism may deify Gautama somewhat, but I think the emphasis is still 90% on his actual teachings and NOT on his unusual status of enlightenment. And, because Buddhism has remained more pure over the centuries, many more of their valuable teachings have been kept alive. For example, I think it is difficult to find examples where Christian prayer is truly a transformative, enlightening experience. Most people who pray in church, they pray selfishly and never really have a spiritual experience. Buddhist meditation, I think is different. There is much more of a chance of having an altered state of consciousness and therefore an enlightening experience. In my past, I was taken to Episcopal church as a kid and never had much of a spiritual experience there. When I was older, I started practicing some Vipassana meditation (a very pure form of Buddhist meditation) and this practice indeed brought life-transforming experiences for me! Therefore, the "buddhist" part of my self-description... As for the "pagan" part - I have a deep interest in all pagan and shamanistic beliefs for both anthropological and spiritual reasons. Shamanism, of course, has the best capability of achieving the right trance states to access different perceptions of reality. This is most important for understanding the Universe. As for paganism in general, IMHO, a pagan multiple-god belief system is not at odds with a one-god pantheistic belief. A pagan system merely divides the overwhelming Oneness into different facets, so that each person can concentrate their will onto one facet of the All. A nature-based system is perfectly valid too, since nature is the way in which we most directly experience the workings of the Universe on earth. So to sum up, my spirituality includes a little bit of everything. I study everything, and I try to borrow from many different practices to get a complete picture. I don't think that any one belief system is "right", I think all beliefs have something to contribute. Someone once made this great analogy for me: imagine a number of people crowded around an elephant, blindfolded, each having a hand on a different part of the elephant trying to figure out what it is. So an outsider asks, "what does the elephant feel like to you?" The person with his hand on its tail will give a completely different description from the person whose hand is on its leg. But they are all trying to describe the same thing, and no description is wrong; just limited. That is sort of how it is with religion, I think. (heheh sorry for the extreme long-windedness, it is a big topic for me... hope someone likes reading it... )
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Goblin King
Wolfcub
Misfortune and chaos, grief and destruction, the works of dreaming evil, and the joy of unholiness.
Posts: 8
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Post by Goblin King on May 12, 2007 18:31:36 GMT 2
I enjoyed reading it indeed ;D. A lot of what you say is I think very wise, but I can't agree with you on most aspects. Personally I'm Christian, I don't really care what kind of exactly, Christian is Christian, the entire splitting up of Christianity is a bad thing in my mind. I do think the entire organized world church with 1 man at the top is a bad thing though, which would make me protestant. well, this would have been a lot longer, but the pizza just arrived, so I'll continue this discussion some time later .
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Post by Wanderer on May 25, 2007 15:57:55 GMT 2
I don't follow the religion I was raised with. All my family is very religious, but I realized that it's only a mask for other people, because if you live in small town where everyone is so religious you can have problems. I don't think that there is something wrong with religion itself, because every religion has good points. but something is wrong with people who follow this religion and with leaders. Christianity has good point that you shouldn't kill, be possessive and things like that but nowadays, people go to church only because they think that they should go and they are showing their beautiful face and when they came out they just start judging all the others and become greedy and stuff.
I still think that there is no god or devil, because they are only symbols for human nature. in everyone is god but there is also devil. you know that noone is extremelly positive persone and noone is extremelly negative. WE are the ones who decide what we are, sinners or saints. we can be both.
but I also think that there is something. I don't know if it's a power or I don't know what. It's just something that keeps everything going. but I don't think it's destiny.
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on May 26, 2007 3:01:00 GMT 2
I'm Norse Pagan, I don't belong to any specific group or anything. I just believe in the old gods after a rather strange and surreal dream that just.. made sense. It's like I was being told what to do and what to prepare for. I, personally, am a follower of the Æsir and Vanir, devoting equal time to both. After that, I became sort of obsessed with my Norse heritage, and of Vikings and Viking Metal. My girlfriend thinks I'm crazy (which I don't deny) but she's no better. As it is, I was raised Lutheran, but honestly I can't seem to really "fit" into Christianity. I don't have anything against it, it's just not for me.
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Post by bungdeetle on Jul 17, 2007 12:34:42 GMT 2
I don't believe in a God that says "Thou shalt not do this or that... put that down! No, no, don't do that!" but I do feel there is some beautiful force that strings all beings and "non-beings" together. Heaven and Hell aren't so much places as they are states of mind. They aren't achieved in an "afterlife" but in this life, and even that is rare.
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on Jul 19, 2007 4:49:42 GMT 2
I don't believe in a God that says "Thou shalt not do this or that... put that down! No, no, don't do that!" but I do feel there is some beautiful force that strings all beings and "non-beings" together. Heaven and Hell aren't so much places as they are states of mind. They aren't achieved in an "afterlife" but in this life, and even that is rare. You sound like my mom. I used to believe that, I honestly didn't know what to think about the whole thing because at the time I was surrounded by a few VERY Christian people. You sound like you're on a constant spirtual journey, and if you believe that.. Good luck on it.
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Post by bungdeetle on Jul 19, 2007 11:57:38 GMT 2
Hmm... well... I'm constantly trying to figure myself out. Not sure if that's spiritual or not. But thanks!
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Han
Wolfcub
Posts: 6
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Post by Han on Jul 19, 2007 16:48:35 GMT 2
I'll make this fair and simple:
I believe in Nature and in some of old heathen gods of North... And in Moon, Sun, Yggdrasil... And in many kinds of spirits...
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Jul 19, 2007 17:35:27 GMT 2
Now, for some reason I'm very into norse mythology at the moment. I really enjoy listening to songs about norse mythology or reading about. Also for the past 7 months I have had a thors hammer round my neck and I feel really protected with it on (besides the fact I have never took it off since buying it) and I do feel that its apart of me and call my easily lead but I kinda beleive in Vahalla and such.
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Post by pogan on Aug 10, 2007 12:57:44 GMT 2
i don't belive in any god and that kind of stuff. but i like shama and pagan pfilosofy. That god is in the nature and human. and this god will give the power to grow. because i don't like cristian m,ind. You will do this, you will not do that. tha is good that is evil. I think some thinks should be illegal but in general is not good and evil. What in some case seems good, in other seems evil. And I think that we shoul show respekt to our ancestor, our blood and our land.
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