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Post by Bartbär on Jul 27, 2009 22:42:45 GMT 2
Hahaha, Virtual Anwend. I like that, hahaha. I know what you mean though, if I want to have an intelligent conversation with like-minded people I have to wait months and months for one of those odd oppurtunities where the stars align and my wallet and car can afford a journey miles away. But I tell you those journeys are very much worth it! One of these days, even if not me, I'm sure you'll get to meet up with more like-minded people soon enough. Jung is truly an amazing Psychologist and I'm inclined as well to love and agree with his ideas. Of course he is mocked by all atheists and the like, but that is no such surprise, considering atheists mock everything. I know, I was one once. Which is another reason why I don't see why this continuance of constant hate between Christianity and Paganism continues to exist. Perhaps on the Christian side it is due to some inability to understand, or some enforced restriction to not get attached to such a thing. And on the Pagan side it is a desolate memory of the bad deeds done upon our Ancestors and our places of worship. However there should be some acceptance on both ends. Afterall Christianity continued the use of the high festivals and symbolism, just with a new story behind it. Heathenism has continued to survive through Christianity, sure not all the doctrines are similar, in fact they are very much different, but the big parts survived, and to us Heathens born into Christianity, it wasn't hard to feel that connection and come back to our original roots. I feel strongly towards Jungian Psychology/Philosophy because I've experienced it myself. It is like I always say of the Runes, it is not that I found them, they found me and revealed my true self to myself. In a sense this brings out the concept of Odin's Rune Song, sacrificing himself to himself in order to gain the knowledge of the Runes. Runes are powerful, but only unfold if you are willing to sacrifice yourself, cast aside your old shell in order to find the new one. The one you were meant for. I could go on about this for ages, but suffice to say that there is something real, something very real, in all that I have felt and yearned for. I have had many rough times to where I felt my faith loosening, but time and time again I return to the same ways with a more profound and elaborate belief.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 6:17:00 GMT 2
Aaaa, Herr Carl... I remember being totatlly spelled while reading his idea (years ago when I was young and easy to be seduced by great books ). Tis true that archetypes and collective memories of our ancestors still dwell in us, and that somehow we got to be the new versions and beholders of ancient wisdom,but most of us don't know how to deal it. Or what to do with it. Maybe tis this century, i don't know..
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Post by strujka on Jul 29, 2009 7:06:50 GMT 2
I never believed in God, although I was raised in an Orthodox Christian family, I went to church on special occasions, I celebrated Christmas, Easter, etc... I still do, as a matter of fact, but it's just because I feel happy and all loving on these days, all family and friends gather together, and because I like the traditions. The thing I believe is that there might be some .. divine force out there (and that divine force is really shocked with our "holy" wars and all the religious terror, hatred and discrimination). I ask for help when I'm in a really difficult situation (although I'm not sure if it's just a habit ... ). I also believe in Evolution. I believe that we go somewhere after we die (although I still haven't made up my mind with all the haven/hell stuff), I believe that we have souls. I don't believe that plants and trees have spirits, however, I do believe that Nature is sacred and we should love and respect it. I also believe in destiny and at the same time in free will... And now, after all this .. what am I? I define myself as an agnostic, but I'm still not sure. And as a conclusion, I think that we were never meant to know what's "up there" while we're alive. :]
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Crystiannia
Clansman
"Here is the deepest secret nobody knows..."
Posts: 384
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Post by Crystiannia on Jul 30, 2009 4:39:06 GMT 2
...And as a conclusion, I think that we were never meant to know what's "up there" while we're alive. :] Agreed! The greatest of mysteries and adventures yet awaits mankind! The truth is not for us to know yet! Religion is so intense that on one hand it can cause such beautiful harmony and then on the other horrendous discord. Everyone has their own beliefs and opinions which is a beautiful thing! It is when we start insisting that only our way is the "right way" that all these atrocities occur. The intolerance of man is far worse than any belief or non-belief. To go a bit further on Jung (whom I adore as he was one of the main reasons I took up psychology!) and theories on ancestral memories. I had the oppurtunity to discuss once that if your beliefs stem from cultural/racial memory or the like, then does that make them nothing more than old stories remembered? That there are no tangible (for lack of a better word) deities of any religion and all are nothing more than fiction? It's difficult to type the thought out, but maybe you can follow! Is everything just a memory that we are passed and that there is no counterpart in reality? I don't believe so. Even memories have to have been formatted from some event or incident. I think there is a very real physical and/or spiritual essance of the deities in this realm, it's just a matter of recognizing or acknowledging it. And I say "deities" because I also believe that since there is such an abundant variety of human life, why can there not be an equal variety of religions? Created by seperate deities and each accurate in their beliefs? Not something so easily swallowed by the majority of religions.
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Post by sanityinfernus on Sept 7, 2009 21:53:15 GMT 2
I am Odinist.
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Post by Bartbär on Sept 8, 2009 5:20:24 GMT 2
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Post by Esteban on Sept 13, 2009 22:23:22 GMT 2
I'm an agnostic.But i had to study on religion since 4th degree of primary school until end of high school.I've never managed to deal with various prays to memorize.I had never took a good result on that lesson.So my faith had been destroyed.But i can't reject God's existence.I don't like religions which are believed by large societes.Religions of little societes(for example shamanism,paganism etc) is more innocent than great religions.I respect everyone's faith.I hope hey respect my idea.
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Post by wolferin on Sept 13, 2009 23:55:30 GMT 2
I'm an agnostic.But i had to study on religion since 4th degree of primary school until end of high school.I've never managed to deal with various prays to memorize.I had never took a good result on that lesson.So my faith had been destroyed.But i can't reject God's existence.I don't like religions which are believed by large societes.Religions of little societes(for example shamanism,paganism etc) is more innocent than great religions.I respect everyone's faith.I hope hey respect my idea. I don't think religion must be an obligatory school subject, but if it is you have to pass it - no way. But your prays are really very long and complex.
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Post by Esteban on Sept 14, 2009 0:24:57 GMT 2
I'm an agnostic.But i had to study on religion since 4th degree of primary school until end of high school.I've never managed to deal with various prays to memorize.I had never took a good result on that lesson.So my faith had been destroyed.But i can't reject God's existence.I don't like religions which are believed by large societes.Religions of little societes(for example shamanism,paganism etc) is more innocent than great religions.I respect everyone's faith.I hope they respect my idea. I don't think religion must be an obligatory school subject, but if it is you have to pass it - no way. But your prays are really very long and complex. You are right wolferin,it mustn't be an obligatory.That's why i agree with black bands sometimes ;D(and i respect faith of other people).Fortunately my religion teacher in high school was so tolerative.He supported me to pass that lesson with extra grades.But i'm angry (secretly) with him because of an exam question.It was so irrespectable against other faiths in Turkey.That lesson's aim is making new generations religious.Result for me:fail ;D .I wish i could explain why i had to study that one but it has too many political reasons to explain .
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Post by rayla on Sept 16, 2009 20:02:36 GMT 2
I don't think religion must be an obligatory school subject, but if it is you have to pass it - no way. But your prays are really very long and complex. You are right wolferin,it mustn't be an obligatory.That's why i agree with black bands sometimes ;D(and i respect faith of other people).Fortunately my religion teacher in high school was so tolerative.He supported me to pass that lesson with extra grades.But i'm angry (secretly) with him because of an exam question.It was so irrespectable against other faiths in Turkey.That lesson's aim is making new generations religious.Result for me:fail ;D .I wish i could explain why i had to study that one but it has too many political reasons to explain . Eww, it sucks to have compulsory religion lessons. In Poland we have that, too. And I find this unfair, even if I am catholic and don't mind atttending such lessons (as long as it is at least a bit interesting:P). Here religion is taught either by a priest or a school catechist. Mostly the subjects of the classes are boring and totally uninspiring. Out of 4 priests who taught me, 2 were great, the other two were, let's say, nothing special. In theory when a student declares he doesn't want to attend such classes, he should attend ethics classes instead. But there are few schools where there is a qualified ethicist. :\ Also, religion lessons should be, in my opinion, the classes where the knowledge about various religions counts. And here I sometimes have an impression, that these classes are about personal beliefs of the teacher: if you dare to disagree, you get lower grades.
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Post by Bartbär on Sept 16, 2009 20:10:07 GMT 2
Rayla, that too is my biggest problem with religious classes. I Love religious studies, but I don't care to ever take any classes because 9 times out of 10 it is just a professor pushing his beliefs on to you rather than discussing the knowledge and history of the belief system. Thankfully my old Philosophy professor was not that way, although he is Atheist, he would never push it on anyone, he only tried to make people think and challenged their beliefs, even if they were also Atheists. He said that if you didn't have your beliefs challenged, you wouldn't know if you really belived them, or if you really knew what they even were. I really liked that because he either pissed someone off whose beliefs were just a front, or he truly interested those and got respect from those who wanted to accept his challenges and think about his arguments.
I went to Catholic school as a child, and I hated it. Too much "though shalt" and "thought shalt not" and breeding monotonous thoughts rather than boasting each individuals beliefs. I've always been more of a subjectivist for the most part. I hate when I see supposed objective truths, on both religious and non-religious sides, being pushed on to everyone, no matter how much evidence or lack of evidence they have doesn't matter.
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Post by Mighty Croc on Sept 16, 2009 20:35:19 GMT 2
We can make another topic for discussing the necessity/unnecessity of compulsory religion lessons. The situation in Russia is like this. The government says that Russia is a multi-national and multi-confessional country. But schools had had a religion lesson called "God's Law" during the age of monarchy, and a lesson of atheism science during the age of communism (marxism-leninism can also be called "religious", hehe). So now they are making a new law - every school pupil (of course, not him but his parents) will be able to choose between a religious lesson and an ethics lesson. Also there will be a choice in religious lessons - there will be four kind fo them: orthodox christianity, judaism, islam and buddism. But I don't think they'll find a buddist teacher for every school, heh. Hey, we also had philosophy classes, and out teacher was a materialist. And our economics / ecology teacher was an orthodox priest. Rumours say, that once thay had a fight in a teachers room
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Savi
Clansman
Artist meets Survivalist
Posts: 294
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Post by Savi on Sept 16, 2009 20:48:57 GMT 2
I never believed in god or any religion, I really hated it sometimes. Everytime somebody told me something about religion there were so many questions inside my head even "god" could not answer. I am more a philosopher I think, I try to answer the questions by myself and not by asking god for it. "Why was there an earthquake?" " because god wanted it" ..?!?!?!?! HÄ thats not a real answer priest. A lot of people ask me about my belief and my answer is " Well I don´t beliefe in god he is just a person you can imagine to talk to when you have problem or challenges to endure, he is just a false hope, I will not live my life with this damn illusion of a big bearded man sitting in the clouds setting me, after my death, into heaven giving me a good time, as well I don´t think that there is a devil with red tights or something like that, I beliefe in myself, my friends, my familiy and people who stand close to me because they can cause their life by themselves" I appreciate people who have a strong belief but nobody should blame me for don´t having it I hope that everybody understands my point of view and nobody feels insulted or discriminated, that is not my aim
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Post by Bartbär on Sept 18, 2009 0:31:14 GMT 2
Savi, those are good points, and the concept of "because God made it thus" is simply an explanation for ignorance (I don't mean ignorance in the sense that it has been turned to today, ignorance has become a bashing term, when in reality it is not. We are all ignorant in the large scheme of things.) and not knowing what this or that does. I believe there is some reason for this though, and I'm not completely against it. I enjoy balance in all things, and although I consider myself far more a Philosopher and searching for Truth as it appears in my mind, I still try to see some truth in others thoughts. I have a constant struggle between Atheists and Religious types. Perhaps because I'm only around extremists of either side. When an extremist of religion tries pushing their views on me, I begin to defy and throw out some arguments. Also when atheists try pushing their ideas on me I have no problem throwing arguments at them either. I think there has been put a lot of blame on religion. I've met a lot of people who will pin the entire history of human struggle on religion, but I don't think that is a just claim. To me it is not religion, nor the people that believe it, more so it is the people themselves. I've always considered myself an "Individualist" of sorts. I don't believe in doctrines or dogma, instead I base the goodness of someone on themselves and themselves alone. I don't see what people believe and say hey "you are good" or "you are bad", although naturally there is a connection more so if I find someone who does believe in similar things. That is just human nature. But I try my best to not remain too bias, or to at least recognize my bias: afterall when you start to ignore your bias that is when problems arise and atrocities happen. Whether they are religious or not is not the matter. @croc: Haha. Sounds like my professor, a Bakunin Anarchist and thus Materialist (although the Materialist part is still in question, it can be hard to pinpoint what he believes because he knows so much about various things and you don't know when he says something if he believes it always. Especially when we were reading Berkeley and the idea that matter doesn't exist: period.) who I'm sure has picked many arguments with fellow teachers. Thankfully though he goes on the Philosophy prospect: arguments should be questions of discussion, not of debate. Although he said he did get into a fist fight once with an old friend of his who was a Marxist. But according to him it was planned because none of them ever fought anyone before and wanted to see how it went. haha. He said also in his Philosophy classes in College he was so outspoken against Marxism that his Professor told him to stop always interrupting and instead he could give his refute by teaching the class for 2 days. haha Ah, I miss that class so much. If I had the money for gas to fill my car, I would sit in on his lessons as we speak. Perhaps the last half of this post could have gone to "political beliefs", but in reality Religion and Politics go hand-in-hand. So not too far off topic I suppose.
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Post by wolferin on Sept 26, 2009 23:04:49 GMT 2
We can make another topic for discussing the necessity/unnecessity of compulsory religion lessons. Yes! And I thought about making a thread Christianity v.v. Heathenism, but I hesitated if it will somehow double this one.
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