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Post by korpipeikko on Feb 12, 2005 1:04:05 GMT 2
Finns also had much spirit-creatures, like haltija - who lived in the forests, unihuppiainen - who brought the travelers near the treasure, liekkiö - an evil spirit, who burned the fields, ajattara - a female devil who captured travelers, ihtiriekko - a crying soul of a dead bastard child, tonttu - a home god. Isn't Virvatuli then same as unihuppiainen, or was virvatuli ment to make people get lost? And what about Lempo[/b]? If Lempo even is a god it was god of Earth, fire and fertility or something... Hittavainen oughta know...
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 12, 2005 20:19:25 GMT 2
Virva, Thanks, I will try to get this book somewehere.
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Post by HerraHirwi on Feb 14, 2005 17:29:13 GMT 2
Isn't Virvatuli then same as unihuppiainen, or was virvatuli ment to make people get lost? No. Virvatuli is a fire, which promises only lies and leads you to false. Virva for instead is an inner fire, which burns inside you. That's what's my name is about. [/b]? If Lempo even is a god it was god of Earth, fire and fertility or something... Hittavainen oughta know...[/quote] Lemminkäinen - originally a god of fertility and life, also called Lempo. Later Lemminkäinen was given a role of a warfull adventurer, who shares own pleasures with every women he sees. Lempo was later given a bad status and Lempo became a synonym for a devil.
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Post by ShamanRunedancer on Feb 14, 2005 17:35:09 GMT 2
The singer of Finntroll is a GOD ??
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Post by MaliceGarden on Feb 14, 2005 18:49:50 GMT 2
judging from his belly, yes. :]
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Post by korpipeikko on Feb 16, 2005 21:42:44 GMT 2
No. Virvatuli is a fire, which promises only lies and leads you to false. Virva for instead is an inner fire, which burns inside you. That's what's my name is about. on 02/11/2005 at 18:04:05, Korpipeikko wrote: And what about Lempo? If Lempo even is a god it was god of Earth, fire and fertility or something... Hittavainen oughta know... on 02/10/2005 at 11:55:46, Virva Holtiton wrote: Lemminkäinen - originally a god of fertility and life, also called Lempo. Later Lemminkäinen was given a role of a warfull adventurer, who shares own pleasures with every women he sees. Lempo was later given a bad status and Lempo became a synonym for a devil. Whooops ... Shame on me... (täälläkin pitäisi olla se punainen raippa-hymiö )
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Post by frostheim on Feb 21, 2005 17:54:14 GMT 2
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 22, 2005 14:13:52 GMT 2
What the... has economics to do with belief? In China they have a god of wealth... but I couldn't find one here...
Based on animistic beliefs, the Finns uphold one of the very few primitive religious traditions in Western Europe, albeit in a secularized form. The rites of the hunt ( Peijainen), harvest and sowing etc. may well be held as social events, but the spiritual undercurrent is not totally absent.[/b]
Don't know...sounds a bit...contemptuous
Although the gradual influence of surrounding cultures raised the significance of the skygod in a monolatristic manner, he was originally just a naturespirit like all the others. The one whose name was never uttered by the Finns was the spirit whose carnal form is known in English as bear.
Spirit of the forest? ;D
While active and committed belief in the ancient gods of Finland is limited to minor and mutually contradictory groups of neopagans and mostly solitary keepers of an unbroken longstanding tradition, there are still plenty of moments in most Finns life in which they unselfconciously invoke one or more of the traditional spirits, or obey the customs about how not to offend them.
They mean religious spirits I suppose, not beer ...
I do not mean to offend though, It's really interesting...
Reminds me a bit of Jane Auel's 'The Clan of the Cave Bear' great book!
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Post by frostheim on Feb 22, 2005 16:11:14 GMT 2
What the... has economics to do with belief? In China they have a god of wealth... but I couldn't find one here... The list above hardly is a complete list of anything; ie. the Finns have got many kinds of tutelary spirits ( www.economicexpert.com/a/Tutelary.htm ) for nearly every possible occasion; at least among them should be also spirits of some sort for economical matters as well, but who knows about those nowadays; there's no decent or proper written material from those times, without saying that there would be anyone alive to tell further the oral heritage and keep up the traditions concerning the ancient beliefs. Don't know...sounds a bit...contemptuous Instead of telling only that it sounds contemptuous to you, you could at least tell why it does so. I don't see any problem in that article, although it could be better of course. - - the spirit whose carnal form is known in English as bear.They mean religious spirits I suppose, not beer What is this beer-thing and word "spirit" meaning drink everywhere anyway? Of course it's about religious spirits. PS. I've always understood ie. the name "Spirit of the Forest" as a spiritual form living in the forest, and even if I now tried, I can't make any association to strong alcohol drinks in this case. ( Somehow this spirit as a drink feels to me to be an idea interpreted only outside Finland or something, but no offence to anyone now; I'm just wandering a bit. )
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 22, 2005 18:20:36 GMT 2
I was just joking a bit , it is indeed quite interesting... The word 'spirit' means also alcoholic drink as you know. That's why I said that about beer (although it mostly concerns heavier drinks). I think this word spirit origins from Latin and is therefore widespread, or maybe people outside Finland always needed spirits to get the spirit...if you know what I mean. It sounded contemptuous the way it was written: may well be held as social events, but the spiritual undercurrent is not totally absent.sounds as if they wanted to say that most Finnish people never think about anything, and know just a little about those things. Sounds offending. I didn't mean the contents of the article. Spirit of the forest...I did not mean any alcoholic here, although that is also a possibility...(who thinks about alcohol now ;D) Only referring to the great Korpiklaani album... In the Netherlands we don't have such spirits anymore, i mean almost nobody knows about this. I envy you for having such a more or less vivid bunch of gods and spirits. I always liked to read and know about such 'things'. I knew already about the Greek, Roman, Chinese, Mexican, Indian and German gods and godesses, never knew that Finland also has so much interesting to offer in this. I really like it.
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Post by frostheim on Feb 22, 2005 20:55:13 GMT 2
The word 'spirit' means also alcoholic drink as you know. Aye. I think this word spirit origins from Latin and is therefore widespread www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=spiritsounds as if they wanted to say that most Finnish people never think about anything, and know just a little about those things. Sounds offending. To me it says the same (although here maybe in a bit of a clumsy way) as I've read many times in publications and books written in Finnish, that these "rites" had been more or less namely social events, although the spiritual side wasn't totally forgotten of course: the essential was the general rejoicing and being together, and "worshipping" the spirits of many sorts was to a certain extent quite calm, restrained and even in a way hiding, meaning that people didn't make any bigger number out of it, everything happened in the background and along the common doings; it was normal part of life, if you catch my drift; in example these tutelary spirits were almost like family members: although no-one ever saw them, people told tales about them being seen here and there, and how they had to be "treated" well and politely by moving quietly and calm, without disturbing and giving them a bit food and/or drink and so on when moving in their "own" grounds of the house or yard, throwing water for them in the sauna after people had left, or ie. asking permission from a tutelary before entering the shed or log-cabin to hear a couple of knocks from one of the dark corners as the sign of "agreement" and so on. Spirit of the forest...I did not mean any alcoholic here, although that is also a possibility... (who thinks about alcohol now ;D) I referred to your saying "They mean religious spirits I suppose, not beer". What then comes to the name "Spirit of the Forest", I only used it as a sort of an example when trying to express my wandering in usual about how people often tend to understand the word "spirit" ie. in this case as a drink, which at least to me appears a bit odd considering to the context in question.
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Post by Soljarka on Feb 23, 2005 0:00:25 GMT 2
Kyöpelinvuori definitely must be the most twisted and horrible place of bloody tortues and eternal suffering! ;D
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Post by Sethlad on Feb 23, 2005 16:30:08 GMT 2
Just wanted to say: Thank you very much for this link Frostheim. As a language nut it's incredible how I didn't know this page. Kiitos.
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Post by korpipeikko on Feb 26, 2005 22:49:21 GMT 2
Holtiton: Lempo=Lemminkäinen, Perkele The link: Lempo=a nasty spirit Ristiriitaistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But well, maybe it's a mix of both of'm... At least I hope so...
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Post by HerraHirwi on Feb 27, 2005 2:31:17 GMT 2
Holtiton: Lempo=Lemminkäinen, Perkele The link: Lempo=a nasty spirit Ristiriitaistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But well, maybe it's a mix of both of'm... At least I hope so... Lemminkäinen - originally a god of fertility and life, also called Lempo. Later Lemminkäinen was given a role of a warfull adventurer, who shares own pleasures with every women he sees. Lempo was later given a bad status and Lempo became a synonym for a devil. Sisälukutaito kunniaan!!
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