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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 12, 2006 15:46:50 GMT 2
I thought I make a new thread so we can have an open discussion about the political views of you'res and other people's countries.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 12, 2006 17:01:27 GMT 2
I would like to foward my view of the politicians in the UK becuase soon I am going to turn 18 and be able to vote, but i feel that at the moment all politicians are liers. For instance one leader said that he has sorted his alcoholism and then 3 weeks later he admitted he still had a problem. And then Tony Blair makes all these benifits for asylem seekers and then they want more and more money from the government and this then leads to the UK being in debt with the world bank. ~From the statistics in my lesson at college, the UK are already 11 billion pounds in debt. So my conclusion is that most politicians are untrustworthy and I shall not vote until I have decided wisely. I also feel that the death penalty should be made for punishment as this would make an effective deterrent for criminals, however the death penalty should ONLY be implied when the evidence is concrete solid and it has been looked thoroughly with a very fine comb so no inocent person should be sentenced to death. If anybody wants to discuss about the views I would be very interested to hear you're views of other political views about the UK or a different country. Olli (Love and Respect- James Hetfield-2003)
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Post by janneke on Apr 12, 2006 21:48:22 GMT 2
The Dutch politics suck, our president sucks, I don't trust politics anymore, too much false promises
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Kettu
Wolfcub
skogalv och stentroll
Posts: 41
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Post by Kettu on Apr 12, 2006 21:52:05 GMT 2
No politican - no cry!
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 12, 2006 22:09:44 GMT 2
thanks hehe, I think that some politicians are untrustworthy but I could blmae the media, anybody want to elaberate more on the topic
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Post by swordmaiden on Apr 15, 2006 0:25:42 GMT 2
I would like to foward my view of the politicians in the UK becuase soon I am going to turn 18 and be able to vote, but i feel that at the moment all politicians are liers. For instance one leader said that he has sorted his alcoholism and then 3 weeks later he admitted he still had a problem. And then Tony Blair makes all these benifits for asylem seekers and then they want more and more money from the government and this then leads to the UK being in debt with the world bank. ~From the statistics in my lesson at college, the UK are already 11 billion pounds in debt. So my conclusion is that most politicians are untrustworthy and I shall not vote until I have decided wisely. I also feel that the death penalty should be made for punishment as this would make an effective deterrent for criminals, however the death penalty should ONLY be implied when the evidence is concrete solid and it has been looked thoroughly with a very fine comb so no inocent person should be sentenced to death. If anybody wants to discuss about the views I would be very interested to hear you're views of other political views about the UK or a different country. Olli (Love and Respect- James Hetfield-2003) haha we should have a contest between the US and the UK to see who will rack up the most debt. the US budget deficit is about $86 billion. and i can kiss social securty goodbye. what is really pissing me off is this issue of immigration. instead of immigrants applying for citizenship through legal means, a bunch of arrogant border hoppers are protesting for rights they don't deserve. they come here and demand they get bilingual education instead of learning english, immidiate citizenship and work permits, government grants/welfare, etc. while immigrants from other countries have to wait years for american citizenship legally. my friends aunt from serbia has been here 17 years and she is still being denied citizenship, its ridiculous. people from other european countries usually have to wait at least 10 years before they are granted citizenship. citizenship has to be earned and these mexicans want it free with out question. heh i guess that is what happens when a certain minority has strenght in numbers.... if they get what they want now, who knows what it might lead to...california, arizona, and texas becoming independent hispanic states/countries? if they tried to do this in any other country they would be scoffed at i'm sure. when people immigrate to another country they are expected to learn the language of the country and abide by that country's rules etc. if they are unwilling to do this then they should go back to their own country! plus the US doesn't even have enough resources to take care of its legal citizens let alone a bunch of illegal immigrants
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Post by DaveTheRake on Apr 15, 2006 4:23:19 GMT 2
if they get what they want now, who knows what it might lead to...california, arizona, and texas becoming independent hispanic states/countries? hmmmn, it would be funny, those states were, specially in the case of Tejas, Spanish territories. As long as I'm concerned the Spanish crown allowed a settlement of settlers to set their houses in Tejas as long as they learnt Spanish, and embraced Catholicism... they promised, they never did, they grew in number, and they became an independent state when Mejico became independent of Spain... correct me if I'm wrong, though I think I'm not . So in a way history would return to its basis. You would be surprised if you could see the reality of immigration in the rest of the world. Here in Spain there are a lot of immigrants, mostly from Morocco, who asks for social helps but don't want to learn Spanish or don't want their children to learn the language, or even don't accept that they go to Catholic schoold (although I can understand this). It's funny too that just because they're immigrants they get some helps that an Spanish would never dream of being in the same estate of life. For example, if I want to live with a girlfriend (or a boyfriend), but we both earn more than 700€ per month, we wouldn't be selected to get a flat rented or built by the state. An immigrant earning more than that would get the flat. It's that easy, if you're Spanish, you're suppossed to live with your parents till you buy a flat of 70m2 that costs 240000€ And about the language, I'm not so sure about that, but isn't it an amendment on USA constitution that says that if you want to be American citizen or just live permanently in the USA you must learn English and acquire the socio cultural way of life?
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 15, 2006 19:16:40 GMT 2
Well in th UK, there is an increasing amount of illegal immigrants coming into the country which, is making the country suffer. It seems as if the government is more fussed on producing benifits and equal rights for them, instead of the homelesness. Also the immigrants wants to ban christmas lights in the cities becuase it is against their religion and they want ban christmas plays. It really annoys me. thats why I want to move country Legally and do verything right and work for the money and not be handed benifits becuase it is not right. The UK isn't the UK anymore- the country is going downhill at the hands of Blair and it's going to be over ran by immigrants becuase they keep coming and coming . I've lost faith and pride in my country now. I just want to move country and do everything legitimately and forget about the UK. The lyrics in Korpiklaani's Jounry Man associates with my feelings. "I was born in a big forest, I wish I could live here all my life"- I wish I could live in the forest all my life but there is so many problems.
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Post by DaveTheRake on Apr 15, 2006 19:38:40 GMT 2
The UK isn't the UK anymore- the country is going downhill at the hands of Blair and it's going to be over ran by immigrants becuase they keep coming and coming . I've lost faith and pride in my country now. I just want to move country and do everything legitimately and forget about the UK. The lyrics in Korpiklaani's Jounry Man associates with my feelings. "I was born in a big forest, I wish I could live here all my life"- I wish I could live in the forest all my life but there is so many problems. But under my point of view I think you should ask, will another one do it another way? I mean, will wigs change this? I don't think so, just because there's a global immigration movement. I don't think that there are other countries with more problems with illegal immigration than Spain. We've got Africa 14 kims southwards our coasts. W also have the Canary Islands nearer to subsaharian countries than to the metropoly. On 2002 (I think) there was a new immigracy law in Spain, approved by Popular Party (right wing party) that tried to make harder for an immigrant to enter Spanish territories. You would always supposse that a right wing party would use quite restrictive measures... they certainly did. But were it really useful? I don't think so. It's not a problem of closing the borders, the problem is not inside, but outside. For years we have been showing to the people in poor countries how great we live in the industrialized countries; for me the simil is eating side to the window of a restaurant that is side by side with a ghetto. Then it's absolutely easy to understand that this people wants to be inside the restaurant, not outside; they're hungry, they want food and they see that people that are not hungry have almost of the food they want (of course, this in a thick summary of the matter). I understand they come to our countries and they do in any way. I would do the same! Of course once they're inside your country you've got a problem, and not an easy one, that's why I say that if in your opinion Blair is doing it bad with immigration, I'm sure the wigs won't do it better; I insist, the problem is that this people want to enter, and you can't stop them, you can't put a guard each 10 metres of coast! The problem, the true problem is why there's a world in two levels, those who have, and those who haven't. When industrialized countries realize that we must teach the others to develope, we will solve the problem with immigration. The problem is that illegal immigration is positive for a small number of people; in Spain you can find all the illegal immigrants working in recollecting vegetables. It's cheaper to pay three illegal immigrants for what a legal immigrant would earn, and five illegal for what a Spanish would earn.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 15, 2006 20:24:23 GMT 2
Wow! Well the pronlem which makes me angry is that all the benifits the government hand out. I would prefer to see that the homeless people in Britain is sorted out first, instead of them going commiting crime to get in prison- they should be put on schemes where thay can get back on their feet so to say. Another problem is discrimination. Gone the days for istance if 2 white people would be prejudice to an ethnic minority- it has turned. The ethnic minorities are being prejudice towards white folk. Alos I was planning on going in the police force- but now they have created equal oppotunities, i cannot get in that easy becuase they would want someone from a different ethnicity. Thats all fair enought but it gets too far when 2 white pople gets recruited out of 100 ethnic members. It get far too ridiculous. I do not want to close the border or anything, but there is just too much benifits being handed out i suppose.
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Post by swordmaiden on Apr 17, 2006 1:38:55 GMT 2
if they get what they want now, who knows what it might lead to...california, arizona, and texas becoming independent hispanic states/countries? hmmmn, it would be funny, those states were, specially in the case of Tejas, Spanish territories. As long as I'm concerned the Spanish crown allowed a settlement of settlers to set their houses in Tejas as long as they learnt Spanish, and embraced Catholicism... they promised, they never did, they grew in number, and they became an independent state when Mejico became independent of Spain... correct me if I'm wrong, though I think I'm not . So in a way history would return to its basis. You would be surprised if you could see the reality of immigration in the rest of the world. Here in Spain there are a lot of immigrants, mostly from Morocco, who asks for social helps but don't want to learn Spanish or don't want their children to learn the language, or even don't accept that they go to Catholic schoold (although I can understand this). It's funny too that just because they're immigrants they get some helps that an Spanish would never dream of being in the same estate of life. For example, if I want to live with a girlfriend (or a boyfriend), but we both earn more than 700€ per month, we wouldn't be selected to get a flat rented or built by the state. An immigrant earning more than that would get the flat. It's that easy, if you're Spanish, you're suppossed to live with your parents till you buy a flat of 70m2 that costs 240000€ And about the language, I'm not so sure about that, but isn't it an amendment on USA constitution that says that if you want to be American citizen or just live permanently in the USA you must learn English and acquire the socio cultural way of life? i know about the immigration issues in spain with the people from morocco...i noticed it while i was there. same here with finacial aid and getting jobs....the immigrant "minorities" take the lion's share just because they have strenght in numbers and the liberal government loves them. in order words...2 people applied for a job: 1 was philippino, the other a white person from lets say poland. the polish guy is more qualified has experience and is college educated while the philippino guy is not. but the philippino guy gets the job because he is a "minority" and its part of affirmative action. its ridiculous. i, in no way, shape, or form said that people that come to the usa have to conform!....keeping your own traditions and culture is important as i do (i am not american remember). but in order to work here you should learn the language and not demend that the tax payers pay for the people that will not make an effort....what i hate most are freeloaders. what i like to see is a person receiving a hard earned paycheck because they worked for it without anyone's assistance. it is not fair to the rest of us...is there anything for eastern europeans here?...no. we actually have to work our asses off for anything, unlike these immigrants. it is unfair for certain people to get special treatment, that is all. by the way, the constitution doesn't state the offical language of the country because it is already implied. by the country's rules i meant laws. i didn't say people had to learn english, i said they should stop demanding that everything be in their own language..if they want that then they belong in their own country. if i started to demand that my education be bilingual in both serbian and english and that voting ballots, newspapers, and tv channels be in serbian then i should go back to serbia, end of story. in other words, these immigrants are acting like the whole world revolves around them....how arrogant and selfish is that? ...and now on the history of california, texas, and new mexico, and arizona. yes, they originally were part of mexico when it was under spanish rule, then mexico became independent. as the us was expanding there were border desputes between mexico and the usa over texas. the americans wanted more of texas basically. after the mexican-american war, the usa gained the mexican territories of california, arizona, oregon, new mexico, and more of texas extended to the rio grand. mexico was defeated and the giving of these territories was part of the treaty. mexicans have their own country and cannot claim a piece of land that is no longer theirs. especially since it was not a recent invasion, it was part of a treaty of defeat.
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Post by swordmaiden on Apr 17, 2006 1:55:06 GMT 2
Wow! Well the pronlem which makes me angry is that all the benifits the government hand out. I would prefer to see that the homeless people in Britain is sorted out first, instead of them going commiting crime to get in prison- they should be put on schemes where thay can get back on their feet so to say. Another problem is discrimination. Gone the days for istance if 2 white people would be prejudice to an ethnic minority- it has turned. The ethnic minorities are being prejudice towards white folk. Alos I was planning on going in the police force- but now they have created equal oppotunities, i cannot get in that easy becuase they would want someone from a different ethnicity. Thats all fair enought but it gets too far when 2 white pople gets recruited out of 100 ethnic members. It get far too ridiculous. I do not want to close the border or anything, but there is just too much benifits being handed out i suppose. exactly, now many of the minorities are becoming racist against white people based on skin color again. the very thing they were fighting against...they became their own monster. the blacks here are in that situation and it is not fair for people like me with white skin to be blamed for something i didn't do. rascism is starting back up because black people keep pulling the race card every time they need an excuse why they are not living up to their full potential and not working as hard as other people. and unfortunately, it created some retaliation amongst the white people (both american and european) and white nationalist movements are on the rise again. it is really sad, and it is beginning to be quite a problem. meh...i wish everything was entirely based on merit and not what your ethnic background happens to be.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 17, 2006 12:05:19 GMT 2
Thank You! oh my god, if I was say any thing you have just said, i would be seen as racist. Im not racist, it's just that the government loves the minorities. That example with the polish guy is so common. I would be in that position when i want to join the police force, now i have just spent 2 years at college to get an upper hand to joi the police nd now it's worth shit becuase of the politicains and their stupid equal oppotunities! I'm gonna get in the police becuase i am determined but let's see what the future holds
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Post by DaveTheRake on Apr 17, 2006 21:20:48 GMT 2
Bufff, I'm afraid you won't like some of the things I'm going to say. Let's see, I'm not going to tell you two that you're right nor wrong, but I'm afraid you miss a lot of things in what you say. As I said in a previous message, immigration is a global problem, so we've got the same problems in the USA, in UK, in Spain, in France etc, etc. The situation is the same everywhere. In fact, I'd love that you could see the problematic with languages in Spain; imagine, this is a country of 42millions of people in which there are 4 languages that must live together . But well, I too think that if you want to another country the first thing you've got to do is learn the language and, try to embrace as much of the new culture as your own allows you. About the conditions in which black, whites and reds live... well, let's see, I think it's true that a white man has it's life easier than the rest, but it's not a matter of race but class... let's see, I'll take an example of my own experience. As some of you know, I worked for two years at a library in Medicine faculty of UAM. Medicine is one of that careers in which you see that somebody comes from a family in which everybody has been a doctor for generations. Many of the students there were sons and daughters of doctors that worked in the private medicine, that means, they had more or less sure than they will find a job in the same medical centre in which their parents work. The black here would be the boy or girl that has good marks but comes froma a current family. Why I say all this, just to exmplify that white man has been preserving its supremacy for years because he has had power for centuries. Maybe this sounds to the same old song, but it's true, you've got more oportunuties in this life if you come from a rich familiy; in your countries, not much black families are rich, so it's ok to think that they've got less oportunities. Here its the same for example with a family of gipsies... I've only known one gipsy at university in 8 years. It's never a matter of meritocrathy, the real truh is that money calls money; if you've got money, you will have a lot of oportunities others won't ever have. Look at George Bush, do you think that another redneck from Tejas knowing as little as Georgie does, but poor, would get the White HOuse? Anyway, I too think that black people take too often the excuse of racism to do the same they complain they're done. But it's not exclusively a matter of black in USA... look at the Jews, so loved by the governing administration of the USA. After WWII USA needed an ally on middle east... what they did? taking as a excuse what nazis did to the Jews, they took the Jews of Europe, stole territories to the Palestinians and made the state of Israel. A state built with the intention of avoid a new holocaust... how much time did Israel take to declare war to the countries around them? Who have been the last ones in building a ghetto in Ramala? What has this have to do with black people? Simply, I too think that minorities often try to freely protect themselves under the umbrella of old crimes comitted to them. But, have you noticed that behind every racist act there's always the white man? It's ok that black, Jews, Chinesse are also racist... but it isn't true that white man is always behind every riot? Well, I'm afraid I'm getting too much out of context, sorry. I don't try to tell you both that you're wrong; you certainly are right, is ridiculous that of the positive discrimination... what it creates but more discrimination? But it's easy to say this or that is wrong, but... how could you get it right? Remember wehat I said in a previous post, this people is inside your country already, they don't find job... what's better, to help them or to let them commit crimes? Swordie, you've said liberal administrations love that "ghetto" people.... I don't think it's that. It's true that the difference between liberals and right winged is that you know from the very first moment that right winged are going to screww you, but the liberal ones tell you to please look at another place while they gently pull your pants down and screw you. But still, they pull your pants down, I mean, while they fuck you they do something for you. I've been most of my life a guy with socialist ideals, and it's sad for me to say that there's not much difference nowadays between the left and the right wing; but there's one crucial difference for me, and it's social polithics. Left wing rise taxes because they are in debt due to their social programs. Right wing rise the taxes of lower people, for example a 10%, and higher rents to 18%; while they do that, you cheack how less and less money goes to social programs but mostly to defense (this happened in Spain, in times of peace )... then what you preffer, to pay taxes for a new tank, or for a new Xray room in your medical centre? THIs in a nutshell, sorry for using the typical cliché. Well, I think I'm gonna leave it now, I could talk and talk about this, but I preffer to stop here. I insist, I don't say you're worng in your ideas, just want to make you see things are more complex
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 17, 2006 23:06:05 GMT 2
Wow Dave! I never put it in that respect. I'm going to have a serious think about what you have just wrote. I would just like to say that I might have wasted 2 years fro the police force becuase of equal oppotunities. I suppose i never thought about other countries with their porblems becuase at the moment all the media is making a fuss about the royal family and how disgraceful they are acting. I culd blame the media for some of my views as they just go on and on about the UK instead of other countries:(
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