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Post by Bartbär on Apr 13, 2010 15:16:27 GMT 2
New movements always have a slow start, but I'd venture to say that this start isn't slow at all. That is a pretty good amount of votes considering they've only been around for a short amount of time. The thing with such new parties is that the public is so used to the same bullshit they've been fed for all previous elections, and thus they've got their mind set on the same principles and "changes" that are being spewed to them every year by the same old politicians. When a new party comes up, it's like a shock to the system, they finally get to start THINKING again and this is a great thing, because previous politicians didn't make them think one bit. It takes time, but I think another few years down the road it may (and I hope!) be a much more understood party! I wish them, and you all, luck with that! Here in the states we've been having a big rise in people fighting for freedom and good politics. There has been a new movement, mostly of libertarians but not based on bullshit partisanship (I hate partisanship, I don't believe in voting for someone just because they are from "your" party. I believe only in voting for someone who is worthy and has a history that proves they've always stood by what they are saying now. If such a person is not in the ballot, then I do not vote.) there are many Republicans, Democrats, and Independent (as well as other so-called "third party" people that are a part of it). In a sense it's sort of based around Constitutional Conservativism, for which I'm pretty much on base with. There's no such thing as a perfect government or a perfect constitution, but in america what the rebels of England put together as the basis of the constitution I do find to be very admirable. Liberty and a need for a small government. How can you not love a constitution that was written by people who actually fought in the war and on the political front against the oppressors? Not to mention, how can one not love a country that was built on revolution. Even the founding fathers in america believed that it was the job of the people to keep the government in line, not the other way around, going as far to say that it is our duty as citizens to revolt against the government, even violently, if it seeks to oppose the rights of the people. I like that. But nowadays, after centuries of people no longer caring to keep the government in line, things have gotten WAY out of hand. America is now trying to portray itself as a super power, despite the fact that we are damn near bankrupt and can't even afford toilet paper to whipe our countries ass of all the filth it's trying to excrete out from past bullshit politics. It would be nice to be able to afford things as a country and see some of the traditional things restored. Sure countries change as technology and everything else changes, but the BASIS of these changes have been completely unfounded. I'll end the rant there, as I could go on all day about that.
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Post by nightwica on Apr 16, 2010 20:21:23 GMT 2
Yesterday were the elections, the right-wing but too old and fucked up party Fidesz-KDNP is 1st, with around 50%, second is MSZP- the motherfucking socialists, those who were communists 20 years ago with 19-20%, and the third is Jobbik Magyarországért Mozgalom with 17-18% - (far) right wing, but nor rascist, just it's on the side of the nation, not against it (like MSZP) and it's called far right because of this.. But about 1 million people voted for it, which is in a 10 million's country a big number. I'm a bit sad, that we (I really do like Jobbik's ideas) couldn't be better than the socialists. I have to mention, they gave free food, tea etc. for their voters. And 400 Forint / gypsy family who votes for them.... (400 Forint is 2 USD) But our party developed in 2 years from nothing, without money from the state, and we are in the Parliament so this is a great starting! It is a great start, Nightwica and an impressive result for a party so young. Today at the conference I honour Hungary by wearing my Dalriada shirt with the big picture of Janos Arany Yeah this is great as a start! Now they're in, they can raise Hmm I don't like that t-shirt. Thank God on the women's t-shirt there is no Arany János just the text:) I would't like to walk with him on my t-shirt
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Post by nightwica on Apr 16, 2010 20:24:16 GMT 2
New movements always have a slow start, but I'd venture to say that this start isn't slow at all. That is a pretty good amount of votes considering they've only been around for a short amount of time. The thing with such new parties is that the public is so used to the same bullshit they've been fed for all previous elections, and thus they've got their mind set on the same principles and "changes" that are being spewed to them every year by the same old politicians. When a new party comes up, it's like a shock to the system, they finally get to start THINKING again and this is a great thing, because previous politicians didn't make them think one bit. It takes time, but I think another few years down the road it may (and I hope!) be a much more understood party! I wish them, and you all, luck with that! Here in the states we've been having a big rise in people fighting for freedom and good politics. There has been a new movement, mostly of libertarians but not based on bullshit partisanship (I hate partisanship, I don't believe in voting for someone just because they are from "your" party. I believe only in voting for someone who is worthy and has a history that proves they've always stood by what they are saying now. If such a person is not in the ballot, then I do not vote.) there are many Republicans, Democrats, and Independent (as well as other so-called "third party" people that are a part of it). In a sense it's sort of based around Constitutional Conservativism, for which I'm pretty much on base with. There's no such thing as a perfect government or a perfect constitution, but in america what the rebels of England put together as the basis of the constitution I do find to be very admirable. Liberty and a need for a small government. How can you not love a constitution that was written by people who actually fought in the war and on the political front against the oppressors? Not to mention, how can one not love a country that was built on revolution. Even the founding fathers in america believed that it was the job of the people to keep the government in line, not the other way around, going as far to say that it is our duty as citizens to revolt against the government, even violently, if it seeks to oppose the rights of the people. I like that. But nowadays, after centuries of people no longer caring to keep the government in line, things have gotten WAY out of hand. America is now trying to portray itself as a super power, despite the fact that we are damn near bankrupt and can't even afford toilet paper to whipe our countries ass of all the filth it's trying to excrete out from past bullshit politics. It would be nice to be able to afford things as a country and see some of the traditional things restored. Sure countries change as technology and everything else changes, but the BASIS of these changes have been completely unfounded. I'll end the rant there, as I could go on all day about that. Yes, for the majority of (maybe) older and not thinking people there are only two parties, the right wing Fidesz and the socialist-communist MSZP, and they can't think of anything else. But as you said, these days they started to THINK! I will be really honest to you: About your 2nd paragraph.. I've understood your words as words, but I didn't understood what you meant, it's just complicated for me because it's politics, and in English. If you do want me to understand should you pls write it in 3-4 sentences in a simplified English if you can do something like this. If not, then it's okay, too, just don't wait for an aswer from me.
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Post by kuusuru on Apr 17, 2010 8:01:15 GMT 2
Yeah this is great as a start! Now they're in, they can raise Hmm I don't like that t-shirt. Thank God on the women's t-shirt there is no Arany János just the text:) I would't like to walk with him on my t-shirt Oh come on, he's not so bad . True that this shirt is a bit more colourful than I would normally wear, but I get lots of stares and no laughs yet. And, as a result of this shirt, I discovered that one of my colleagues is Hungarian! I didn't realise Sandor is a Hungarian name, and he didn't realise Hungary has such well-known metal bands Actually, I normally seem to get stared at anyway, just standing there the other day near the park waiting for a bus, I noticed all the bus passengers going by staring at me. Or perhaps was the company I was with
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Post by kuusuru on Apr 17, 2010 8:21:17 GMT 2
I hate partisanship, I don't believe in voting for someone just because they are from "your" party. Well, this is the great lie of democracy, isn't it? The fundamental premise of democracy, the whole question of "What's in it for me, the voter?" is that you elect someone who will best represent your interests. Each constituency elects a representative who will represent the interests of a collective majority in a geographical area (kinda sux to be a minority in that case, but that's a rant for another day ). But the party system changes that - you end up electing someone whose first loyalty is not to you, it's to their party, for whom your interests are WAY down on their list of priorities. Their first loyalties are to their factional colleagues/comrades, to the people who fund their political campaigns, to the people in the local party branch who keep them nominated as the party candidate... I like Robert Heinlein's philosophy on citizenship - that it is a privilege to be earned rather than a birthright. If you want to have the opportunity not just to stand for election but to vote, you have to earn that right by serving the commonwealth. Heinlein seemed to think that military service was the only way, but it doesn't have to be. Do two years of military service or two years of voluntary service to the community, working in an aged-care facility or a library or animal refuge or recycling centre or volunteer firefighter or something like that. Then, and only then, have you proved to the community that you are someone not only who might be worthy of representing us, but that you have some understanding of who might be a worthy representative. Great metaphor, it will stick (ha! ;D) to me for a while
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Post by nightwica on Apr 17, 2010 9:51:06 GMT 2
Yeah this is great as a start! Now they're in, they can raise Hmm I don't like that t-shirt. Thank God on the women's t-shirt there is no Arany János just the text:) I would't like to walk with him on my t-shirt Oh come on, he's not so bad . True that this shirt is a bit more colourful than I would normally wear, but I get lots of stares and no laughs yet. And, as a result of this shirt, I discovered that one of my colleagues is Hungarian! I didn't realise Sandor is a Hungarian name, and he didn't realise Hungary has such well-known metal bands Actually, I normally seem to get stared at anyway, just standing there the other day near the park waiting for a bus, I noticed all the bus passengers going by staring at me. Or perhaps was the company I was with Yes, of course he's not bad, actually he's one of the biggest poets So in the secondary school you learn about 15 full A4 sides text about him But walking with his face on my t-shirt is just weird imho Ohmygod. I think I would be shocked if I were a Hungarian living abroad, and a non-hungarian college walked in with a Hungarian poet's face on his T-shirt. Yes, I would be quite shocked. 0.o He didn't know Dalriada? Then his musical taste must be really far from metal Yes, Sándor is the Hungarian for Alexander.
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Post by kuusuru on Apr 18, 2010 12:05:53 GMT 2
Ohmygod. I think I would be shocked if I were a Hungarian living abroad, and a non-hungarian college walked in with a Hungarian poet's face on his T-shirt. Yes, I would be quite shocked. 0.o He didn't know Dalriada? Then his musical taste must be really far from metal Yes, Sándor is the Hungarian for Alexander. No, he didn't know them - and yes, I think his taste is far from metal - he is way older than me, so probably old enough to be your grandfather ;D About being shocked - well, that's what metal does, it reaches across nationalities and languages and cultures and unites you with your metal brothers and sisters, and the Internet makes it easy for that to happen
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Post by nightwica on Apr 18, 2010 16:05:54 GMT 2
Ohmygod. I think I would be shocked if I were a Hungarian living abroad, and a non-hungarian college walked in with a Hungarian poet's face on his T-shirt. Yes, I would be quite shocked. 0.o He didn't know Dalriada? Then his musical taste must be really far from metal Yes, Sándor is the Hungarian for Alexander. No, he didn't know them - and yes, I think his taste is far from metal - he is way older than me, so probably old enough to be your grandfather ;D About being shocked - well, that's what metal does, it reaches across nationalities and languages and cultures and unites you with your metal brothers and sisters, and the Internet makes it easy for that to happen Well said, Bro
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 14:58:15 GMT 2
I never trusted polisicks...... Tis a long discussion with the situation here, but I think it's getting ugly. Protests are started, more will come also. In short: due to the reduction of salaries and pensions,etc, people got angry. As far as I'm concerned ,and going to extremes, I'd even accept the fact, but how can they do that to old people when they have anyway low pensions that aren't enough now..what will they do with 15% less? I thought it won't get to me, but I kant! Not when tis about children or old people...they are supossed to be protected,not ,,hit". Ja, because they'll take money from childcare subvention too. :/
And the leader's discourses remind me of early childhood..which is not good..they sound totalitarian. At least people are free (hmm..) to express themselves. Hopefully that will change sth, but it's hard to tell.
Polisicks.....
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Post by Bartbär on May 13, 2010 1:22:53 GMT 2
I understand your frustration Tina. It seems everywhere since this whole "economic crisis" all of the politicians are doing the worst things possible in order to "solve the problem". Here they are continuously wasting money on stupid shit, instating new laws that only cost more money (like the new healthcare bill, which I'm still confused as to why more people aren't enraged about it and protesting it) and cutting funds for the areas that we need it most: like education and pensions. It's all bullshit.
Here, there has been a wonderful (and I can't believe I can say this) politicians who are ACTUALLY concerned with the country and actually care to keep liberty for the people and tear down tyranny in the government. The latest action has been to formulate legislation that will Audit the Federal Reserve: see where all of its money has been coming from and see where all of the money it has spent has gone. Yet sadly in the Senate there was not enough votes to pass it, but they are still working on persuading more to take part.
It just amazes me though that some senators and other government officials would NOT want to audit the federal reserve? I'm puzzled about that. It would let us see exactly all of the bullshit that is going on and then figure out how best to deal with it. But no, some people still think the Federal Reserve is a wonderful thing. I mean afterall, it does continue to print off more and more money which devalues the dollar further and causes even more inflation.... Yay for the federal reserve!
The worst part too about this inflation is that it is no longer prudent to save your money, at least not too much of it. What you spent years to save up will, after all this continued inflation, turn out to be only a year or so worth of value. So most people are investing in Gold as a valuable resource in which their assets can be sustained. And then certain groups laugh at the individuals who do that, as if they are practicing some archaic art of savings. In reality we shouldn't have to resort to any of that.
And the recent protests and riots in Greece... sometimes I wish it would happen here, let the government know just how pissed off its citizens are of their bullshit.
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Post by kuusuru on May 13, 2010 2:04:21 GMT 2
And the recent protests and riots in Greece... sometimes I wish it would happen here, let the government know just how pissed off its citizens are of their bullshit. But the causes are really the opposite, aren't they? In your country the government regulators took their hands off the wheel and allowed the market to create some very dubious ways of making money (if only Ayn Rand were still around to see what a mess her disciple Greenspan made of things). But in Greece, twas the government spending more than they were earning to artificially boost wages in the public sector. So in the US, the right wing ruined the economy, while in Greece, twas the left. Just goes to show that right vs left doesn't make much difference, at the end of the day it is haves vs have-nots, always has been, always will be. What I read in the English-language press from Romania is that the government is desperately trying to avoid falling into the same hole as Greece - but instead of tackling corruption and the black economy and making sure the rich people pay their taxes, they've decided to cut spending, including to the poorest people in society. Before they did that, would have been nice if they decided not to buy a bunch of F16's, maybe then the pensioners and mothers wouldn't have been slugged
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 16:37:46 GMT 2
They don't do much bout the black market,nor really do sth radical to eradicate corruption...as they are the black market and the most corrupted ones. So they won't do anything against themselves...they just send their awfully idiotic children to parade here and there, buy holiday mansions in West,etc,etc. Ja, the F16's...heh! I wonder what's behind that thing too..in fact I don't, am pretty sure smn gets good money from it. Anwend, all I can say is that it sux! There,here, everywhere...or I am just in a bad mood and see things grey.. The main thing is that at an individual level, I don't lose hope..coming from a long line of survivors. It's just that I am sorry a proud nation, with great people is dragged down by its leaders (elected tis true, but must say that there were many frauds,and nobody was punished even if we have laws)...and other negative social elements. Wish I didn't post in this thread..
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Post by Bartbär on May 13, 2010 19:25:24 GMT 2
kuusuru: I'm not entirely sure it was the working of the Right-side of the spectrum that put us in this mess we are in today. Especially considering how truly non-conservative the so-called Right-wing is in the united states these days. I'm not one for partisanship, I hate it, and I believe it is false to look at things in terms of left and right. But to say, I do find old conservative principles, at least on certain fronts, to be very effective. Ironically in the states today, even the most well-known "republicans" are about as conservative as the biggest liberal democrat out there, and when constitutional conservatives poke out their head, even the republicans think they are "old fashioned" and crazy. Doesn't really make sense to me. The Constitution is seen as the most important document in the US, but politicians and citizens alike think that Constitutional Conservatives who are trying to restore the Constitution are nut-cases. Hmmm.... Anyways, I dislike it all. But I do believe protesting is a right of the people, and should be utilized more often than it is. My biggest complaint with the riots in Greece, is that I heard they were raising Communist flags... Not entirely sure what has been going on with this increasing interest in communism, but it frightens me. Communism is the biggest plague on any society, in my opinion. Quite frankly I'd rather go back to barbarism than live under a communist government. @tina: Politics are indeed enraging, but when discussed in a proper manner can produce some positive results. Not sure how well that works against politicians though... pfft. In america, I've found that one of the biggest problems is just how big the House and the Senate are, and how many pieces of legislation they go through in a day. This bill to Audit the Fed is a wonderful thing for the country, but not even 40 Senators voted for it, and it's hard to persuade them when each speaker only gets 5 minutes to talk about it before moving on to other pieces of legislation. I'm sure though the House and Senate seemed like a much better idea back when they were founded, before all of the constant bullshit legislation that people feel the need to try and instate.
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Post by kuusuru on May 13, 2010 22:57:46 GMT 2
kuusuru: I'm not entirely sure it was the working of the Right-side of the spectrum that put us in this mess we are in today. Especially considering how truly non-conservative the so-called Right-wing is in the united states these days. I think you hit the nail square on the head in those two sentences . Lack of regulation by government was an important contributor to the collapse of credit markets, as even the architects of that deregulation seem to have admitted. Deregulation, "small government" etc is a rallying cry of the neo-conservatives (which term do you dislike more, neocon or right-wing ). But some controls were removed by the Clinton Administration, and administrations from across the spectrum have injected large amounts of public money to prevent rotten private institutions from failing, which is a play from the Manifesto . And I'm sure someone's probably written a book about this, but... tis a shame to see what has become of the party of Abraham Lincoln Cultural and fiscal conservatism with green liberalism... show me a country which preserves traditions, cultural heritage, public money, personal freedoms and the environment - and I'm there. Actually, I think Finland comes pretty close
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Post by Bartbär on May 14, 2010 2:08:56 GMT 2
Cultural and fiscal conservatism with green liberalism... show me a country which preserves traditions, cultural heritage, public money, personal freedoms and the environment - and I'm there. Actually, I think Finland comes pretty close Indeed. Ironically this whole series of bailouts going on is completely against the concepts of the capitalism this country was founded on. A lot of people mock capitalism as a consumerist plague that destroys liberty and turns people into drones, but I have to disagree, at least if we lived in a true society of capitalism. Capitalism preaches that companies, no matter how big, are meant to last only of their own accord and fall when necessary. There will always be another giant to take its place, and thus it is only causing more problems to try and bailout companies that have run out of ideas and whose heads have become so big they only care about squeezing the cow for every last atom of milk. And although I dislike how citizens are in a consumerist society, I think consumerism is a good thing in that it encourages useful advancements in crucial areas of technology. The thing I hate about it is that consumerism is wasted on things like beauty products and fashion rather than medical care and other worthwhile areas. Ah, must cut this one short for now. I'm sure I'll have more to continue on next time I log in here.
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