MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Apr 18, 2006 1:35:56 GMT 2
More or less I agree with Dave, immigration and social safety are global problems. We all are in an economucal bust, thus no politicians can solve our problems. I bet ten or fifteen years ago life was easier in every corner of the civilized world.
Minorities: I've got some problems with positive discrimination. While we give rights for the minorities we forget about defending the common weal - here I mean that people from the majority of a country have sometimes less rights than minority people. e.g.: here in Hungary a homeless can travel on public transport free of charge, even if they smell badly and look disgusting in their dirty clothes and probably have some lice in his hair. And all the others, the majority people have to tolerate somewhow the reek of that pour, single homeless, even if they had paid for the trip. And a ticket is quite expensive here, so I think the majority should have the right to travel in normal conditions when they can breath properly and they don't have to afraid of getting some kind of illnesses or parasites. I really feel sorry for homeless people, but their problem isn't solved when the government gives them free travel cards instead of places to go for cleaning and warming. And this is the process how politics can create racism, because they just do the same with ethnic minorities. Instead of giving them work, they give them welfare, but then people get used to live withouth working and they don't want to work anymore. than majorty people will start hating minority people because they don't have to work and the state gives them money from majority people's taxes. If there's more people on welfare, the government needs more money to pay for unemployeds and taxes will be risen, than companes will go bankrupt, than unemployment will grow again and so on, like a snowball which can become an avalanche.
I know tthis sounds a bit pessimistic, but anyway, economics and politics go hand in hand and politicians usually keep only 10 % of what they had been promised previously.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 18, 2006 16:13:11 GMT 2
I really feel sorry for homeless people, but their problem isn't solved when the government gives them free travel cards instead of places to go for cleaning and warming. And this is the process how politics can create racism, because they just do the same with ethnic minorities. Instead of giving them work, they give them welfare, but then people get used to live withouth working and they don't want to work anymore. than majorty people will start hating minority people because they don't have to work and the state gives them money from majority people's taxes. If there's more people on welfare, the government needs more money to pay for unemployeds and taxes will be risen, than companes will go bankrupt, than unemployment will grow again and so on, like a snowball which can become an avalanche. I know tthis sounds a bit pessimistic, but anyway, economics and politics go hand in hand and politicians usually keep only 10 % of what they had been promised previously. I agree with with some respect. I am not racist or anything like that. But honestly I think the government should sort the homeless out before the immigrants and fussing around with equal oppotunities. I have just wasted 2 years at college taking a subject that should help me get into the police force. But now I have like 20 percent of being recruited becuase the government would rather have some minority with no education or qual;ities a potential officer should have. It just does not make sense. To me i think that the british citizens are slowly being withered away. in 50-70 years all the British would have gone to another country while all the immigrants have overran the place.
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Apr 18, 2006 17:08:15 GMT 2
Where will all those Britsh citizens go? Will they be immigrants in another country? It doesn't make sense for me. I think people should do somethig to keep their home counntry and shouldn't let immigrants to overrun it. By the way, if British want to escape from the UK, just feel free to come to Hungary. I personally would prefer to live with British immigrants instead of Roumanian and far-eastern and Arabic ones...At least they know how to queue up at a bus stop...
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 18, 2006 19:57:30 GMT 2
hehe I make take you on that offer to go to hungary. The problem is thatif anybody speaks up about it they get seen as racists godammit. i had to write about politics and wrote 50 pages. And yes i did mention the immigrants and ihad to have a meeting with the principle about my views are straight foward and not subtle.what are they on about? I put good topics about the immigrants and they saw me as a racist. i did not even make any racists remarks. i just mentioned the fact that there is toomany immigrants coming into the country and they have no rights to try and ban christmas lights(becuase they did try doing that). I want to move to finland and i do not want to receive anybenifits- i want to work and earn my own money and i do not want any special treatment as the immigranst receive over here.
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Apr 21, 2006 22:54:26 GMT 2
hehe I make take you on that offer to go to hungary. You are welcome any time... Back to politics: today is the last day of the campaign for electionns in Hungary. I wonder whether the Socialist party or the Young Democrats will win. The campaign was awful on both sides (no realities, bunch of promses without any basis, everybody thinks that people are idiots and forget the past 4-8-12-16-50 years and all the big parties bescattered and scandalized the others) And, though I'm personally a democrat, I wouldn't vote for the young demaocrats at heart. Nor for Socialist though their communication was slightly better. The funniest thing that here in Hungary we don't really have a traditional conservative party, so the democrats are on the right wing, why socialists and liberals are on the left. If those parties were in Britain all of them would be in the same wing.
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Post by DaveTheRake on Apr 21, 2006 23:28:04 GMT 2
If those parties were in Britain all of them would be in the same wing. That's something funny and interesting about countries; it's a good way to measure the ideology of a country. For example, it was quite funny on 2002 (I think) that there was a general strike here in Spain. THe president then was Jose Maria Aznar, and he was friend with Tony Blair. Aznar is right wing, and Blair is left wing; the same day of the strike there was an international event in Seville, and Blair didn't come there with the excuse that "he should support the ideals of their brothers", the left wing. It really called my attention because well, the left wing in Britain has nothing to do at all with the left wing os Spain, in fact, the way in which Blair rules his country was quite similar to that of Aznar in Spain. It was funny, I laught a lot, it was like a bad joke Blair supporting the Trade Unions in Spain, and Socialist and Communist parties. And well, I also like a lot when I read CLinton talking about the newspappers with left tendency in USA.... left tendency in USA? What's that? Was AL Gore a polithic of left wing? That's why he supported death penalty, I supposse. And is Kerry a guy of left wing? Married with the owner of a big multinational? Is that left wing? Is really funny, at least for me. I must also say that here in Spain, Socialist party is suppossed to be as its name claims, Socialist. It's a bit sad for me when I see a bunch of guys dressed in jackets on 1000€ with a rolex made of gold singing the International Socialist Anthem; it's a pity but in Europe, SOcialism has fallen inside the hands of a bunch of burgoises. Socialist party is the one I vote for; I even was invited to join them when I was 18. I don't think I'll ever vote for another party, but I realize that the tendency of the people that called themselves Socialists in Spain is going towards the situation in which Tony Blair is now.
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Post by teuton on Apr 22, 2006 21:04:16 GMT 2
Yeah, Dave, I agree.
Actually it is the same thing here in Germany. Socialist parties here simply pretend to be socialist. But do you think they don't drive a Mercedes? Politicians just want money, that's all. Somehow they don 't seem to care about the state of the country.
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Post by DaveTheRake on Apr 22, 2006 21:41:38 GMT 2
Sure, I forgot about the Mercedes cars... former major in my City bought a 120000 euros Mercedes some years ago... and he was suppossedly Socialist. Anyway, I must say a couple of things about this; I don't think that just because your ideals are socialists or communists you must live under a bridge. That's something that right wing people shout (because right wing people cannot talk about polithics, they need to shout, I don't know in other countries) at you telling that the polititians of left wing live thanks to the money they earn in polithics... and I always thank for that, because precisely that's what people wanted with democrat reforms in late XVIII and XIX centuries. Before those reforms you shuld be rich in order to be a polithician, and that's not just. If there's something I like of democracy is that no matter how poor or rich you are, you've got the same right (theoretically) to be a polithician.
What I complain about the richness of Socialists is that meanwhile some of them become richer -and that in my opinion makes them loose contact with medium and lower classes- the people they represent just remain the same. I'm not telling that I want that everybody has got a Mercedes, I just want that those who really support the state, receive a compensation for that. A rich can provide a good health care, a good education and good aliments, he's just rich. I want that the goverment provides the medieum and lower classes with their necessities, and providing a good service... that's what theoretically they're into polithics for, aren't they?
And another thing is the fact that as Teuton says, lkeft wing polithics have forgotten the people they're elected to protect; I always hear louder critics to left wing politicians that are caught into corruption, or fail in the goals they were ellected to success... meanwhile, when it's a right politician the turmoil is not so loud... why, I ask, just because that's what they're suppossed to do, stealing the poor? I always have got one thing clear, a socialist or a communist or a green can fail in their duty towards the big core of society, but this won't ever be a reason to vote for right wing, because they're gonna do the same but increasing the favours for the higher rents. I always say the same, if I must be stolen something, I preffer to be by a left wing polithician than for a right wing, just because the left wing is surely less rich than the other (although I admit that not every right wing politician is rich necessarily).
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Post by teuton on Apr 22, 2006 21:52:11 GMT 2
All people complain here. If their too left-wing, they complain about their upper class lifestyle. If they are too right wing, people complain about their racist attitude.
For example, Joschka Fischer. Twenty years ago he threw wih stones on policeman as a left-wing activist, and until 2005 he was the foreign minister. Two worlds in contrast.
Politics is based on capitalism, if it's left-wing, right-wing or whatever. Politics have become a money business. Here in Germany, additionally, many politicians are part of the leadership of major companies, so that these politicians are in favour of those and will thus do all their best to keep the companie's leadership "alive" - whereas the workers have to suffer from the egoistic attitude of the leadership. And you don not have to forget abou payments those politicians receive from those companies.
Vive la Bourgeoisie - they aren't any poor blokes.
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Post by Frekia on Apr 22, 2006 22:23:48 GMT 2
Politicians have a lot of money, but that does not mean that this is their only motivation for this job. There are easier ways to gain money. And if you think you know it better then do it yourself.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 22, 2006 22:33:42 GMT 2
I just glad that the UK and other countires you guts are from are not as bad as Iraq. Yes even thought there is major downfalls and false promises but i suppose we havnt got a tyrant in power as bad as Hussain. I am still deciding who to vote for. i know it is not going to be Blair but i got suspicious when he won the allection, even though he agreed to help with the Irag war. it wasnt anything to do with the UK or the US. i just want to live in a cave deep in woods sometimes when i hear antics of the politicains on the news.
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Apr 23, 2006 23:43:56 GMT 2
Frekia: it'S not as easy to become a politician - and (at least here in Hungary) it is the easiest way to get lot of money withouth any hard work. Thanks for God and Europeans, that there aren't any dictators around us... by the way I'm not sure that people in Iraq think that Hussein is as bad as he is for us. They have a different socio-cultural background and they are quite used to live in a state ruled by a tyrant. The problem with Hussein is not about his regime, but about the fact that Iraq would like to be an atomic superpower in the Near East. Back to democracy, Dave is right about the base : each man should have equal rights. Unfortunately history has proved that having equal rights doesn't work in the reality. E.g. healthcare: Supposing that every hospitals have the same up-to-date equipments and the doctors are all trained equally good, a man having heart attack in a city has more chance to survive than a man having heart attack in a far-away farm or village or in the woods...And in real countries small town hospitals are usually less equipped than capital town hospitals. And there are differences between doctors. Regarding politics Teuton is right about the fact that no matter where the politicians sit, they aren't really for their electors. Ther's a huge "team-work" between politicians and company leaders and economic experts. Politics in Europe and in the USA are not about common wealth anymore, but about the interests of the leading companies. Once I had a teacher at the university (he taught us sociology) who was an MP in the first democratic government of Hungary. He told us that after having been in the parliament for a year, he realised that he was unable to keep his promises. He didn't want to disappoint his electors, so he resigned. He was more of an idealist, than a pushy social climber, and he couldn't give up his principles. Now the sad thing about politics is that MPs usually give up their principles and join the great political maffia.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 24, 2006 13:49:22 GMT 2
Well the politicians usually promise this and promise that but it is hard to see them come through. Tony blaire has no just made a new scheme that he is going to send the criminals to a different country.What the hell is the point of that? i heard on the news that tony blaire had plans and had a meeting with the metropoliton police about the criminals going to a new country and i just got so annoyed. I can see in a few monthes to come that when that idea is put through, that he is going to send the criminals to a nice warm country and wsting more money on crime that is not going to effect the crime trends. anything lese it is going to make the trend higher becuase people would want to go to a warmer country. I just hope that i heard right or the new presenters was wrong. For healthcare- my friend was saying that in America you could get charged up to 600 dollars for going inot the hospital to make an appointment becuase the doctors call it a visual anylysis or something like that, so in a way it's better healthcare in the uK, even though i dont need to go becuase I've never had something wrong with me (must be the water in our village )
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Post by DaveTheRake on Apr 24, 2006 15:28:31 GMT 2
WEll, in the UK there's an old tradition in sending the convicts to another countries, Blair is just doing the same that his predecessors did many years ago ;D. But well, seriously, I don't think that the promise of a warmer weather would push me to be a criminal; you're in a warm country, ok, but are you free to enjoy it? I think that you don't care so much if you're in a cold or a warm country if you're free to leave it whenever you want.
I'd like to say, moving to Irak tha Moondancer is quite much right, I don't think that Irak people thought they were so bad with Sadam. Let's see, of course there was a lot of people who wanted to be free in a democratic country; but if you compare their former situation with the one in which Irak is sunk now... well, I at least would preffer being under a regime. I watched on the news one month ago that the news about Irak was that there had not been any huge attack that day; but as the guy on TV said, there had been more than 20 people killed that day; the difference, they weren't killed in just one attack. SO I don't think now people from Irak are so happy Sadam is not around anymore. USA wen tinto a country just to get the petrol and their excuse was massive destruction weapons... that weren't found; they've got the petrol increasing day by day, their soldiers die everyday... I don't think they've suceeded in their preventive war, they've turned a zone in a relative peace into a zone of war. So, was really Sadam the problem?
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Apr 24, 2006 16:14:06 GMT 2
Well in one respect Sudam was a bad factor becuase he was bluffing about the weapons but america- being the world police had to get involved becuase i think that bush wanted the petrol and he was bored stiff doing nothing but bitch and whine in his comfatable seat in the white house. there was no need to go to iraq becuase it has costed many lives in the process. when the war broke out me and my fellow school buddies went to the monumount in this very busy town protesting about the war and i think it is just stupid. i think that bus was just itching to get on his high horse about the criminals going to warmer countries- well i was trying to be sarcastic becuase knowing blaire he would send them to a tropical paradise but then again i am just having another dig at him. even though he is doing the same as his predecessors but i think it is going to cost more to that, but i wonder? would he actually get serious and send them to a prison in siberia? that would sort them out. i am just hoping that i heard wrong on the news but i would be very angry if he is sending them to a better place than the uk (which is anywhere at the moment) but then agin its just me feeling very angry at politics. i think ill have to learn to accept it becuase there is always going to be flaws with politics and and i would like to vote so then i am not being selfish or resentful for what the soldiers from different countries has done in the 2nd world war against hitler but actually proud and privaliged that i can vote becuase of all the sacrifices and the bravery that was given for the countries
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