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Post by SkogRoar on Mar 13, 2006 14:20:30 GMT 2
Blueberry, not only death can bring the freedom. Look at my signature. i dont realy agree with that.. Look,if you live a retired or a hermitic life, that doesnt mean you are independent. You always have your little borders, and customs, that society "gave" you. It doesnt matter wherever you live alone in a Himalaian cave, or in a city center. Maybe you can be more near to the real nature, but that doesnt mean you are totaly independent. (I Hope) you were born in a social enviroment, and its realy hard to change your thinking.
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Post by blueberry on Mar 13, 2006 22:04:41 GMT 2
You're right Áron bácsi. We are never alone in this world, so we have to pay attention to our mates or just our environment. Cause of this thing we can't be totally independent. But as I said, I believe that when we die we can win freedom through the nature. And true or not in my reason when we die, we will despose from all of the human things, like hatred or love, so we won't depend from nothing. And when you go out and take a fresh breath and watch the trees and the animals, you feel that you are closer to the freedom, or independence than being for example in a fastfood-reastaurant, like Mekkdáneld. And on the other hand religions can be really strange. I think Buddhism is ok. In this one I don't know about any rules, I only know that Buddha said that we have to drop all the good and bad things in our life, and at the end, we will be at the estate of the Nirvana. Can Nirvana be the total freedom? I don't know. But it's true that in our life we won't be fully independent... And yea, Noaide. Music can bring the freedom as well.
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Post by vargaskinn on Mar 15, 2006 17:05:04 GMT 2
There is one nice definition from a sociology book that describes my point of view;Freedom means to have a choice.To live in such circumstances that you are free to choose what you want to do,to be...for me it might be journey and far horizons,for someone it is having a home and safe shelter,for me it is adventure,for someone, perhaps ,love,I want to leave a trail,especially in art,someone just wants to live...we are different,but those who can choose how to define themselves are really free...as much as a human can be,for there is no absolut freedom
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Xena
Wolfcub
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Post by Xena on May 3, 2006 17:53:24 GMT 2
I am free for everything !
Naturally, I feel really free with my horses in the nature !
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Post by twilightheart on May 3, 2006 20:49:19 GMT 2
Naturally, I feel really free with my horses in the nature ! Ah, I can recall that feeling from my childhood (my grandfather was a blacksmith and taught me how to get along with horses). Almost nothing is comparable to this. Anyway, my mother always says: "Freedom is realizing the necessary". It took me a while (when I was younger), till I understood it correctly. If you just do what YOU want without caring for other people or anything around you (lets say you steal something because you feel you need the freedom to do so), then it leads to no real freedom in the end. But if you realize the necessary things to take care of (other people, your own life (for instance a good job to pay your rent) and things that have to be done essentially), then you have a real basis from which you can live your dreams and your freedom and no one will be able to set you limits.
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keks
Wolfcub
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Post by keks on May 3, 2006 23:37:15 GMT 2
freedom is naturally given to every human being, said John Locke.
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Post by Hiding on May 4, 2006 0:51:12 GMT 2
Yeah, a very hard theme to talk about. But I think that instead of talking about freedom after life we'd better discuss what it is during our life. Freedom is when you are not limited with smth. So it's impossible because you're always limited. Of course, i agree with that. But if it is right, there is no freedom. So why do we need this word? So freedom is smth else. What is it? In my opinion, freedom is your own feeling. Only you can make yourself be or not be free. There were a great Russian poet Alexander Pushkin who claimed politicians all his life for their strong laws and oppresions of people. But in the last year of his life he wrote a great poem "Of Pindemonti" where he changed his position and said that a person cound be free only if he wants himself to be free. I agree with that and think that nobody can bring you freedom. It's only your task
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Post by Frekia on May 6, 2006 12:36:04 GMT 2
Freedom is a very individual thing. For example feel free when I'm traveling in natur, sit by the fire and sleep under the sky. Other ppl feel free when they have enough money to buy everything they want.
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Post by twilightheart on May 6, 2006 15:04:51 GMT 2
Freedom is a very individual thing. For example feel free when I'm traveling in natur, sit by the fire and sleep under the sky. Other ppl feel free when they have enough money to buy everything they want. All true what you said. But there`s also the point when people should rethink their live. Because you shouldn`t feel free "only when sleeping under the sky" (for example) or whatever, instead you should feel free with EVERYTHING you do, knowing it was YOUR CHOICE to live your life like this. And if you don´t feel free in your life most of the time, then something is wrong. (My opinion...)
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on May 6, 2006 19:42:41 GMT 2
In brief, I think that freedom is the ability to do anything you want/ feel to do. Although some actions of freedom can be against the law or hurt other people' feelings on the way.
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Post by Frekia on May 7, 2006 1:59:24 GMT 2
Freedom is a very individual thing. For example feel free when I'm traveling in natur, sit by the fire and sleep under the sky. Other ppl feel free when they have enough money to buy everything they want. All true what you said. But there`s also the point when people should rethink their live. Because you shouldn`t feel free "only when sleeping under the sky" (for example) or whatever, instead you should feel free with EVERYTHING you do, knowing it was YOUR CHOICE to live your life like this. And if you don´t feel free in your life most of the time, then something is wrong. (My opinion...) Yepp, but I think this is more or less impossible.
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Post by swiatowit on May 7, 2006 19:28:54 GMT 2
Although some actions of freedom can be against the law or hurt other people' feelings on the way. Then it's not freedom. Freedom can't waste other's freedom. In all, I think that we can't be really free, no matter what we do. Even death couldn't free us.
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Post by diesel on May 24, 2006 18:29:51 GMT 2
It's a time when you die without asking "Why"! -the Clansman-Iron Maiden
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Post by Humppaporo on May 24, 2006 19:54:13 GMT 2
Freedom is sometimes hard to define. Freedom is indeed the opportunity to choose, but as part of that also to consider. If someone was criticizing you all the time, it would be hard to take your own free decisions... Moreover, criticism is not just from outside, it's also because many of us have learned that it's 'best' to behave this or that way. That may be because of religion, or because of society. To loosen the chains of how things should be done, means that people think you are arrogant, socially maladjusted, and that you don’t fit in anymore. If you did that often enough, people think you are odd, or better eccentric and don’t care anymore, but they don’t take you serious. It’s a difficult balance. Freedom is partly in yourself, partly due to circumstances. And very important: Freedom encourages freedom. When you behave free with others, they can also be/feel free. If you are strictly living according to ‘what one should do, and what one doesn’t do’, others feel very unfree too. Freedom is definitely not just rejecting on forehand what others say you should do, that is as unfree as obeying always.
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Post by Socke on May 24, 2006 22:33:03 GMT 2
That may be because of religion, or because of society. To loosen the chains of how things should be done, means that people think you are arrogant, socially maladjusted, and that you don’t fit in anymore. If you did that often enough, people think you are odd, or better eccentric and don’t care anymore, but they don’t take you serious. I just read "Ulvova Mylläri" by Arto Paasilinna and the story there actually fits to your point pretty well. It's about a miller who moves from South Finland to a little town in Lapland and has some "strange" habits (from the people's point of view). Sometimes he howls like a wolf at nights and other things. But he would never do any harm to anyone, he's a very frinedly person, he just has these habits that are considered "not normal". And because of these things he literally gets kicked out of society, people say he's maladjusted and therefore should seek a doctor, later on he's considered dangerous and even later he's brought to a lunatic asylum (to Oulu... which gave me a good laugh in my situation ;D). Sure, Arto Paasilinna's books are funny in the first place but there is also so much critism in them sometimes... Really worth to think about.
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