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Post by eh on May 5, 2004 16:42:51 GMT 2
side effects? cow is genetically manipulated animal. people just didnt have modern technology in stone age!
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Post by DaveTheRake on May 6, 2004 10:54:42 GMT 2
The quality here is still good! But i don't know what is the good or what is the shit! Thst's the problem; I won't deny that all this shit they give us as food usually tastes good; for example, Sunny juice (I supposse in your countries is comercialized under this name, too) tastes really fine, but you read the components and... where the fuck is the fruit? Why sometimes tetra brick oranje juice (which is only 8% oranje juice) tastes better than a natural orange juice? Fucking bastards, they sell us crap but they serve it really cool
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Post by Skadi on May 6, 2004 20:00:38 GMT 2
people just didnt have modern technology in stone age! really?
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Leitilsdal
Clansman
Beer for the Skald!!
Posts: 251
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Post by Leitilsdal on May 7, 2004 0:16:34 GMT 2
really? Von Däniken disagrees! ;D
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Post by Skadi on May 7, 2004 14:46:03 GMT 2
Von Däniken disagrees! ;D well...you can actually argue on that, that's true.
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Post by Southern Troll on May 7, 2004 15:40:29 GMT 2
Thst's the problem; I won't deny that all this shit they give us as food usually tastes good; for example, Sunny juice (I supposse in your countries is comercialized under this name, too) tastes really fine, but you read the components and... where the fuck is the fruit? Why sometimes tetra brick oranje juice (which is only 8% oranje juice) tastes better than a natural orange juice? Fucking bastards, they sell us crap but they serve it really cool Most of Brazilians don't buy this cause we have great free fairs were you can buy the fruit directly (I think that this expression is right ) from producer! The problem isn't the Juice in "Tetra Pak" box, is the Orange with genetic modification! I don't really know if this thing is dangerous or not! We need to study more, maybe this is really better or maybe not! Who know?
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Post by Skadi on May 7, 2004 19:04:20 GMT 2
Hmm...I make juice myself ;D But it would be interesting to know something about these Tetra Pak juices...
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Post by DaveTheRake on May 10, 2004 10:59:02 GMT 2
I don't really know if this thing is dangerous or not! We need to study more, maybe this is really better or maybe not! Who know? Yeah, you're right; I meant that this juice on that packs tastes better than a natural juice. Maybe it is better the genetically manipulated one but well, even if that's true, I think that it is not something natural; I mean, nature has made everything in this world with a set of properties, if we change these properties, is what we get really what it is suppossed to be? I think that's the great debate with clonning and things like that, is the thing we get the same thing that we started studying or is it something else? I hope you understand what I say. My point is that if you take for example chocolate and you erase the thing that causes acne, what you get at last is not chocolate, because it has not the properties that the true chocolate has. Well, I'm boring you, sorry I don't know what I'm doing talking of scientific matters when I'm a philologyst, not a scientific
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Post by Southern Troll on May 10, 2004 17:20:43 GMT 2
Of course that i understood! But i don't think much in Nature things! The artificial medicine saved my life!
It's very strange to say this but is the truth!
I think that if we study more and know the real effects of this it can be abandoned or not!
Of course that i'm a defensor of choose rights! But i think that if one cloned cell can save one boy with cancer and won't kill him in future, this is perfect!
If i have a chance to change the wrong gens that i have in my DNA i'll do it without think! If the science discover a safety and healthy way for this! Cause i don't wanna see my son suffer like me!
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Post by DaveTheRake on May 11, 2004 10:55:19 GMT 2
Of course you're fucking right in what your saying. I consider clonning a good thing, if it's done under control and clearly. What I don't like so much is manipulating food and things like that. But I absolutely approve the studies whose focus are on trying to regenerate ill cells, even to create new organs. And I'm with you at your opinion that things must be studied well and if they produce something bad they must be abandoned. That's why I complain about food manipulation. But I support any other type of genetic studies searching the cure for ill people. For example I'd love science to find a solution for Alzheimer, so my grandmother could be saned. By the way, I´m happy you could be saved and so we can talk about this And I strongly and with all my heart desire that a baby of yours never get any disease.
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Post by Southern Troll on May 11, 2004 15:17:31 GMT 2
It's good for me know that have people who agree with me! But i saw in news that most of people in Europe don't agree with us! Am i right? I don't know the situation in Brasil, cause the people never talk about this topic!
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Post by DaveTheRake on May 12, 2004 10:01:14 GMT 2
Well, as far as I'm concerned, though I may be wrong, people in Europe is mora likely to our posture than against. The problem here is more about if it's suitable to study in order to clone humans and if it is moral to manipulate the genetics of an embrion in order to get the sex you want it or the colour of the eyes and things like that; the background debate is always the possibility of clonning. The problem when studying the opinion of a group of people is what kind of people you study, I mean, if you go to one church and ask about genetic manipulation, most of the people who answer would tell you that it's a sin against the weill of God. On the other hand you can go to a Medicine Faculty and the answers will be different. That's why I don't believe too much in public researches, 'cos you may prove whatever you want to. So, I can't tell you what the general opinion in Europe is about genetic manipulation, but my experience tells me that European people is more open-minded about these subjects than for example people from the United States. It would be great that any of the Europeans in the forum give his/her opinion.
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Leitilsdal
Clansman
Beer for the Skald!!
Posts: 251
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Post by Leitilsdal on May 12, 2004 13:40:07 GMT 2
I've been for some years now related somehow with the world of science. Not only computer tech but science in general: the way it's done and what's inside of scientific organizations... What I've learnt by this contact can be summarized this way: 1. Thanks to science, people live fairly better than years/decades/centuries ago. 2. There are right now practical ideas that could solve a lot of humanity's problems: food, energy, health, transport... almost anything you can imagine. 3. Those ideas are not put to work just because economical issues. 4. The scientific world itself is somehow "corrupted" (not totally, fortunately) by 2 main subjects: - The economic influence of some big companies. - The internal fights of the academic world in which some scientifics (call them 'selfish') will do only what can improve their careers and not science or humanity). The landscape is sad, at least as I see it. Fortunately, the scientific world is, in general, what it should be: a common forum of shared and coordinated investigation with the aim of improving humanity general condition and knowledge about the world in which we live in. Think for example in health. Thanks to science, some terrible illness have now less impact than before, as Southern Troll has pointed (by the way, I'm very happy to know that you defeated that, and I can only wish the best for you in every aspect). Unfortunately, some other illness are not enough studied and what I find intolerable is that it's made for economical reasons!!! I talk for example about multiple eschlerosis. Or even more rare illness that are not investigated just because the big farmaceutical enterprises will not be able of recovering the invest selling their remedies. Food: there are technical solutions for it, like hydroponic cultives, better seeds (maybe they involve genetical manipulation - but as you all have pointed, it's not genetical manipulation what is wrong itself, but the incomplete knowledge about it that we have, and the way in which things are done: seems like without caring about side effects)... Hunger could be significantly reduced, but again it strikes against some enterprises' interest (and countries!! do you know how much overproduced wheat is thrown in the seas by the USA and other countries just to prevent the fall of its price?) Pollution: I have seen, folks, I have had in my hands approved IEEE papers about electrical cars to put an example... what does this mean? Now, every car in the world could be 'fueled' by electrical energy... not to talk about the use of alternatives energies instead of nuclear/thermic. But tell that to the oil companies... it is said that a lot of such companies buy almost every patent about electrical cars... and then let it be forgotten... why? just to prevent that another company buys the patent and starts producing cars that doesn't need fuel, but just a solar cell. Anyway, the EV (Electrical Vehicles) trend is spreading, and now you can buy a prototype with combines fuel energy with electrical and can reach a lot of speed... That's good news... To sum up: It's not my intention to blame completely the enterprises for the misuse of scientific endeavours. But there are a lot of cases in which life could be better and it's not just because someone doesn't want to earn less money. That's why I said that Science was not to blame, or maybe ir is, but not demonized. I think you get my point Well, I think you all think this way more or less. Excuses if I bored someone... it's just that it makes me angry and sad when I remember how nice this world could be so easily and how it's turned to worse almost every day for one or two stupids holding the strings... See you later Up the Klaani!
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Post by DaveTheRake on May 13, 2004 12:43:18 GMT 2
I'm dissappointed I don't have time to reply but anyway could be added anything? YOu've get the point my bro! Incredible post and very interesting. Hurra for you!
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Leitilsdal
Clansman
Beer for the Skald!!
Posts: 251
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Post by Leitilsdal on May 13, 2004 13:27:03 GMT 2
Thanks man but I think we better come back to the subject of this topic... beers. That reminds me... nobody likes cider? I'm a fan of cider, I like it a lot. Here of course you can buy bottles of cider in shops (there are several good ones, specially from the north of Spain). I've tried also home made cider (very common in the north), but they have a peculiar way of having it. They rise their arm holding the bottle with home made cider, and extend down the arm holding the glass. The aim is to get the maximum distance possible from bottle to glass so a long arc of cider falls unto the glass, making bubbles rise. They just fill a little of the glass and you have it. It's customary to do it that way, and the less cider you spill, the more recognized you are But what I like the most is finding a pub in which they have cider and have a nice big glass (we call them 'mini' in the center of Spain, 'cachi' in the north and 'litro' in some places of the south, around 1 liter of capacity) of fresh sweet cider... or just a mini of beer and another of liter. I don't like so much 'calimocho', which is wine mixed with cola, although I drank a lot some years ago (specially with a drop of blackberry liquor). So, do you like cider?
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