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Post by vargaskinn on Jan 17, 2006 16:51:57 GMT 2
it is interesting how one can see the spirit of certain people through their myths.the most touching thing in the world for me is the mortality of norse gods.every religion implies reward and punishment after life.there's no such thing in this;it's just justice for the sake of justice.have you ever considered that?we should be good for ourselves,not for gods.any neo-pagans among you out there?
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Post by HerraHirwi on Jan 17, 2006 18:19:43 GMT 2
-- we should rock those ugro-finnish,german...with our culture!what do you say? The intention of this topic is not to "rock" any cultures to other. Some are interested in the usual Viking and Celtic stuff, some in Finno-Ugric and Siberian cultures and some in Slavonic cultures. Everybody has an own interests and that's a good thing. People are different. The idea is only to bring forward to each own's interests what comes to the ancient tales and legends..  every religion implies reward and punishment after life.there's no such thing in this;it's just justice for the sake of justice.have you ever considered that?we should be good for ourselves,not for gods. In an old animistic/shamanistic religions throughout the World there was self-evident thing that you should be good and honest to yourself, to others and to nature. "Reward" and "punishment" after death became in religions after man abandoned hunter-gatherer - lifestyle and became a farmer and founded the first villages. In new society the animistic religions changed to polyteistic religions, and there became a need to fright people with "punishment" or "reward" him/her after the death, so that the society would be effective enough. Since the days of Egypt, Sumerians, Babylon etc. the general policy has pulled the strings of religion.. any neo-pagans among you out there? No. Althought I feel myself closed to the nature and I upkeep our old traditions and I study our ancient history, culture and Finno-Ugric languages, I don't feel need to call myself a pagan. I don't belong to church either. I trust in science and research, and my own senses. I am a child of my own age, so I live mostly the very normal modern life in our society, as many many others too. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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Post by swordmaiden on Jan 18, 2006 6:51:39 GMT 2
Finnish runo-singing tradition, epic tales, and folklore in general are one of my favourite interests, as well as other Baltic-Finnic folk poetry as well. Kalevala is only a one part of that; for more I'm interested about the original poems, from which Kalevala is collected. I've also fascinated with Siberian epic and narrative shamanistic songs from other Finno-Ugric, Samoyedic, Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic and Paleo-Siberian peoples and cultures. And for more the archaic myths and legends from all other primeval cultures of our world are also close to my heart. From national epics I've read Kalevala (naturally), Kalevipoeg, Manas, The Sacred History of the Mongols, Lapscelkis, Edda, Beowulf, Niebelungelied, The Song of Roland, The Hero in Panther-Skin, Ilias, Odysseia, Gilgamesh, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Sundiata, Popol Vuh, Hiawatha.. etc. hmm...I have never heard this Finnish runo throat singing before. Do you have any suggestions? |
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Post by swordmaiden on Jan 18, 2006 6:59:19 GMT 2
Thank you guys,for all the links!Dear godmother of korpiklaani,I think it would be difficult to tell sth.more about thode writings,unless we entered into retelling the tales,which would be to long.but,we could focus on some details,perhaps.for example;what about arthurian legend?someone mentioned he was not a knight.of course,i've heard that the original tale comes from celtic myths,where he was an anglo-saxon chieftan settled in winchester(some believe it is the true camelot).there are even tales which insinuate he was an elf-king...swordsmaiden:are you a slav?I saw your signature!If you are,we should rock those ugro-finnish,german...with our culture!what do you say? Yes, I am Serbian  I have also heard countless theories on who the real King Arthur was, mainly the ones saying he was a Briton or an Anglo-Saxon chieftan. I have read Sir Gawain and the Green Knight also, and The Canterbury Tales. |
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Post by frostheim on Jan 18, 2006 10:43:10 GMT 2
hmm...I have never heard this Finnish runo throat singing before. Do you have any suggestions? There's no throat singing in Uralic cultures, thus ie. Finnish runo-singing has nothing to do with it; two different features from two different culture forms. Runo-singing is characteristic for Baltic-Finnic (including also Finnish) and even more widely to many other Uralic cultures as well, whereas throat singing traditions derive from Turkic cultures of the Central-Asia. In addition, the Tibetans, the Inuits and even the Xhosa people of southern Africa have each their own throat singing techniques, but then again ie. Mongolian throat singing is most likely influence from the Turkic people. What it then comes to the Sámi yoik (Finno-Ugric [Uralic]), it of course do has a certain kind of throat technique as well, but as it's so unique and a culture of its own otherwise, IMO one can't talk about namely throat singing when talking about yoik. |
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Post by taran on Jan 18, 2006 20:46:08 GMT 2
Thank you guys,for all the links!Dear godmother of korpiklaani,I think it would be difficult to tell sth.more about thode writings,unless we entered into retelling the tales,which would be to long.but,we could focus on some details,perhaps.for example;what about arthurian legend?someone mentioned he was not a knight.of course,i've heard that the original tale comes from celtic myths,where he was an anglo-saxon chieftan settled in winchester(some believe it is the true camelot).there are even tales which insinuate he was an elf-king...swordsmaiden:are you a slav?I saw your signature!If you are,we should rock those ugro-finnish,german...with our culture!what do you say? Yes, I am Serbian I have also heard countless theories on who the real King Arthur was, mainly the ones saying he was a Briton or an Anglo-Saxon chieftan. I have read Sir Gawain and the Green Knight also, and The Canterbury Tales. if you would like any more info on arthurian folklore,please feel free to ask me a question on the subject,and I will try my best to answer. I have been attracted to dark ages history since childhood and a large section of my extensive personal library is dedicated to arthuriana.there are many,many places near to where I live in Wales with connections to arthurian history.a burial chamber on the mountain where I live is called 'bwrdd arthur'-arthurs table.The nearest town to me is Caerfyrddin,thought to be the birthplace of Myrddin(merlin). |
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Post by swordmaiden on Jan 19, 2006 1:16:26 GMT 2
hmm...I have never heard this Finnish runo throat singing before. Do you have any suggestions? There's no throat singing in Uralic cultures, thus ie. Finnish runo-singing has nothing to do with it; two different features from two different culture forms. Runo-singing is characteristic for Baltic-Finnic (including also Finnish) and even more widely to many other Uralic cultures as well, whereas throat singing traditions derive from Turkic cultures of the Central-Asia. In addition, the Tibetans, the Inuits and even the Xhosa people of southern Africa have each their own throat singing techniques, but then again ie. Mongolian throat singing is most likely influence from the Turkic people. What it then comes to the Sami yoik (Finno-Ugric [Uralic]), it of course do has a certain kind of throat technique as well, but as it's so unique and a culture of its own otherwise, IMO one can't talk about namely throat singing when talking about yoik. I am sorry I goofed that up, my appologies. Thank you for the wonderful info ;D I was basically implying that I didn't know anything and that I wanted to know more about it. Can you suggest any bands with this runo-singing...and the Sami yoik style sounds interesting as well. |
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Post by HerraHirwi on Jan 19, 2006 9:23:29 GMT 2
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Post by vargaskinn on Jan 23, 2006 17:59:25 GMT 2
Virva:of course it is not meant to "rock":)it was just a stupid impression by an enthusiastic balkan girl for meeting another balkan girl.that's what we are like,a bit rude,i'm afraid...hm,believing in science and your senses is alright if you are only interested in human view of the world.but,there are things above that,and here comes religion.human brain is imperfect,and senses...let's say the grass is green...the dog would say it is grey...the fly would say it is infra red.what is the colour of the bloody grass,then?!  ))ok,i've lost it.... taran:i assume you have read The Mabinogi.great work,isn't it?was morgan lefay a druidess? |
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Post by taran on Jan 23, 2006 20:38:00 GMT 2
vargaskinn. yes I have read several different versions of the mabinogion,english translations and in the original welsh. in answer to your question about morgan lefay,the name turns up in later arthurian writings,in some cases she is cast as Arthurs sister,she is said to have been amongst the nine ladies who inhabited the isle of avalon.the name does not turn up in earlier references,such as the black book of carmarthen(a 12th century manuscript compilation,which was most certainly copied from a much earlier source) as far as her being a druidess is concerned,it seems morgan or morgana may be an interpretation of the old celtic goddess name Modron,one of the mother goddesses.in welsh mythology modron was the mother of mabon(see the culhwch and olwen story in the mabinogion). the mabinogion is a very interesting work,I first read it in school as a child and have been fascinated by its tales ever since.many of the stories can be traced back to the dark ages and beyond.a lot of places here in wales are associated with the legends in the book,in fact,a village a few miles away from where I live is said to be the gateway to annwn,the ancient welsh otherworld. hope this answer is of some use to you! books worth reading on the subject:The age of arthur by john morris,Pendragon(the definitive account of the origins of arthur) by steve blake and scott lloyd.the mabinogion(translated by gwyn jones and thomas jones) the best translation I have read.
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Post by HerraHirwi on Jan 24, 2006 0:53:02 GMT 2
hm,believing in science and your senses is alright if you are only interested in human view of the world.but,there are things above that,and here comes religion.human brain is imperfect,and senses...let's say the grass is green...the dog would say it is grey...the fly would say it is infra red.what is the colour of the bloody grass,then?! )) Human mind has always been curious, filled with a need to explain things that surround us. It's the basic thing. That's why I'm in the university in the first place: I'm filled with a need to know what happens around me (= in my case it's a languages and cultures). Of course there are things that can never be explained with minor human brains. It's a self-evident thing, so why even bother to explain such an issue in a public forum? The most best scientists and philosophers don't get any closer with it, so that's why I see this kind of discussion as a waste of time in ordinary band forum. |
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Post by Humppaporo on Jan 24, 2006 10:14:13 GMT 2
Of course there are things that can never be explained with minor human brains. It's a self-evident thing, so why even bother to explain such an issue in a public forum? The most best scientists and philosophers don't get any closer with it, so that's why I see this kind of discussion as a waste of time in ordinary band forum. Sorry Virva, I don't agree with you. It's an interesting subject, and especially because it isn't possible to get scientific ( measurable) evidence, it's open for any kind of philosophic discussion. Not just scientists and philosophers are allowed to discuss their opinions, nor is stated that they would be more right on these subjects than others. Besides, it's never a waste to think, speculate or exchange thoughts about anything, that also counts for an 'ordinary band forum'. vargaskinn: of course I didn't mean retelling the tales, but this way things are quite interesting (though somewhat messy, because several subjects run across each other). Thanks! |
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Post by HerraHirwi on Jan 24, 2006 12:06:33 GMT 2
Not just scientists and philosophers are allowed to discuss their opinions, nor is stated that they would be more right on these subjects than others. I didn't said so, you grabbed this sentence from somewhere else. Despite of how interesting the subject for one may be, this discussion doesn't lead anywhere, because of the lack of knowledge in overall. Specially in a band forum, where one can find much much more interesting feet-on-a-ground based subjects. |
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Post by swordmaiden on Jan 28, 2006 15:00:07 GMT 2
vargaskinn. yes I have read several different versions of the mabinogion,english translations and in the original welsh. in answer to your question about morgan lefay,the name turns up in later arthurian writings,in some cases she is cast as Arthurs sister,she is said to have been amongst the nine ladies who inhabited the isle of avalon.the name does not turn up in earlier references,such as the black book of carmarthen(a 12th century manuscript compilation,which was most certainly copied from a much earlier source) as far as her being a druidess is concerned,it seems morgan or morgana may be an interpretation of the old celtic goddess name Modron,one of the mother goddesses.in welsh mythology modron was the mother of mabon(see the culhwch and olwen story in the mabinogion). the mabinogion is a very interesting work,I first read it in school as a child and have been fascinated by its tales ever since.many of the stories can be traced back to the dark ages and beyond.a lot of places here in wales are associated with the legends in the book,in fact,a village a few miles away from where I live is said to be the gateway to annwn,the ancient welsh otherworld. hope this answer is of some use to you! books worth reading on the subject:The age of arthur by john morris,Pendragon(the definitive account of the origins of arthur) by steve blake and scott lloyd.the mabinogion(translated by gwyn jones and thomas jones) the best translation I have read. hmm...i shall look for this mabinogion...the library should have it. |
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Post by swordmaiden on Jan 29, 2006 2:11:08 GMT 2
Ah kiitos! I will check them out |
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))ok,i've lost it....
