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Post by CrazyMary on Sept 4, 2006 15:16:31 GMT 2
Yes Malice, I posted that only a few comments ago.
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Post by twilightheart on Sept 4, 2006 20:10:08 GMT 2
The Pope is coming to Bavaria this week. So yesterday when I returned from a festival, a lot of nuns were in the trains, travelling to Bavaria. And streets get closed (for parking) everywhere etc. I guess I wouldn`t even get through Bavaria by train this weekend, trying to go to the festival where Korpiklaani play. So I better stay home. No, wouldn´t go anyway... I´m sick of festivals. 6 festivals (some with 3 days music in a row) on 6 weekends was too much. I have an overdose. But of course I´m NOT gonna go see the pope. Just 6 more weeks until Korpiklaani are in my hometown again. I can wait...
Other than that a lot of fake bombs are found in Germany now. So stations and airports get closed sometimes until the fake bomb is found. I don`t think it´s terrorists, it´s just fools who need attention who place those attrapps.
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Post by Humppaporo on Sept 14, 2006 13:29:16 GMT 2
Not exactly news from my country, but still... for me this is a somewhat unexpected outcome. Considering that a sixpack cat III beer in Finland over € 8,- costs. In our country that is somewhere around € 2-3. Guess the results are partly influenced by the type of visitors of this event.
Finns back alcohol tax hike and more restrictions -Poll
13.9.2006 at 14:00
A poll carried out by the Finnish Centre for Health Promotion (TEK) and made public on Wednesday suggests that Finns have hardened their attitudes towards alcohol and expect further restrictions in the country's alcohol policy.
Also a moderate rise in alcohol tax receives backing.
In March 2004, the Finnish government cut alcohol taxation by an average 33 per cent.
The TEK concludes from the poll that the fall in the price of alcohol and the rise in public drinking and other problems have changed thinking.
Two thirds of the respondents said the government had not done enough to tackle the hazards of alcohol. In addition to a tax hike, those interviewed for the poll support lowering the drink-driving limit and introducing so-called "alcolocks", which cut a car's ignition circuit if the driver fails a breathalyser test.
About 1,000 people answered the TEK poll. The results of the survey were showcased at the eighth national intoxicant seminar, a two-day event that began in Jyväskylä on Wednesday.
Apart from this, I don't think that higher prices really help in the long run.
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Anka
Wolfcub
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Post by Anka on Sept 14, 2006 18:40:32 GMT 2
About the last "don't drink and drive" news : do you in Finland have a way to actually get to the pubs on weekends, I mean, public transportation?
Here in Israel we don't have any on weekends, only taxies. And we also have a brand new law which allows the cops to take your car away together with your license if they catch you driving drunk. Don't know for how long they keep it, actually, but still it's pretty disturbing...
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Post by frostheim on Sept 15, 2006 8:08:47 GMT 2
- - do you in Finland have a way to actually get to the pubs on weekends, I mean, public transportation? Aye, we've got a lot of buses (with particular night routes on weekends \,,/) and taxis in general, and here in Helsinki also a metro and some trams. In big cities here one doesn't even really need a car of one's own, as it's so easy to just travel by public transportations (although I surely want to have a car when possible, heh).
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Sept 18, 2006 23:54:04 GMT 2
I'm really interested in what you think of this "small" case in Hungary: Prime Minister of my small country told on a government meeting that they ave constantly been lying during the past years. Now people are protesting all over on the streets, there is a riot in front of the Hungarian national TV's building because-I think- the majority of our nation wants to depose the government and mainly the Prime Minister. Now the PM say that he's very glad that now everybody is informed about the troubles of Hungary, all he wanted to do is to convince people that he and his government don't want to tell lies anymore. Here is an article about his words recorded on a tape and leaked to press yesterday:
[ftp]http://www.budapestsun.com[/ftp]
Well, this is a quite press-friendly version, he used expressions which can't fit the ink and I would never ever use on a meeting.
So, according to your opinion, my fellow forum-mates, what is the practice in a democracy when a newly elected PM confesses that he and his party has been lying?
Actually, people are now attacking the Buiilding of the National TV and a car was bombed, wounded citizens and policemen are taken to hospital, tear-gas grenadines are used, two cars were set on fire by Molotow-coctails...I can't beleive it that this is happening in the middle of Europe in the 21th century!!!!!!
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Sept 19, 2006 21:11:15 GMT 2
What happened with all of you? Is it that uninteresting that a PM admits officially that he and his party have been lying throughout their previous governing period and the elections afterwards? And people are still on the streets in Hungary. I hope there won't be any riot tonight.
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Post by Humppaporo on Sept 19, 2006 22:10:13 GMT 2
What happened with all of you? Is it that uninteresting that a PM admits officially that he and his party have been lying throughout their previous governing period and the elections afterwards? And people are still on the streets in Hungary. I hope there won't be any riot tonight. No it's not uninteresting, it's just not very amazing. Many politicians lie a lot imo, just don't have the courage to admit it. Politics is a dirty game, even here in Holland it is mostly about manipulation and power. Usually the real good willing people don't get into politics, even if they want to, because they are just not the right kind of person to face all those shitty backstabbing business. If they manage to get into politics they usually are out in a jiffy... just cannot stand the climate. I really hope there will be no riots, wish you strength!
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Sept 19, 2006 23:15:55 GMT 2
Thanks, Humppa, you are probably right, this isn't that amazing thing. I was just interested in the fact, that people living in democratic states what think of this case. I think a PM after admitting that he was cheating on the elections and his government falsified the data about the financial situation of their own country should resign. But as you have just written it is normal for you that politicians tell lies. It's not new for me, too, but I think there han't been an example so far for the fact that a leader admits lying.
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Post by DaveTheRake on Sept 20, 2006 0:56:49 GMT 2
I must admit that I have heard about it just a couple of hours ago, so I don't have much info. I heard something in the morning but I was in a hurry so I payed not much attention. Then I heard it on the news at 21.00. It's a bit striking for me, and since I have not much info don't dare to make any opinion, but I must say something; in Europe there seems to be a small problem that maybe is small right now but may grow: the EU is becoming bigger and new country members need to jouin as soon as possible not to loose the train because if your neighbour is joining the union and you don't, you loose market for your products and so on. So, if Europe asks for guarantees to join the union, some countries may feel it is better to lie a bit and join to then make up the economical results; it's bad, but nio a way it is forced by the growing European machinery. PLease, nobody missunderstand me, I like the idea of a common market and so on (though I voted against the Constitution), but I just think that sometimes it is more a pressure for new members than a real help. And as Josep Borrel said in the last reunion for economical issues "There inside (pointing to the room where discussions took place) seemed that Europe was the problem, not the solution". We still need to change our minds.
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Post by CrazyMary on Sept 20, 2006 9:34:21 GMT 2
MoonDancer: I tend to take a similar view to Humppaporo's, not trusting anything a politician says very much. Some people are interested in politics and some are not - and I'm definitely not. So I dont have much to add to your discussion, but I do have this snippet to paste. This is from a media source that is supposed to tell you the news that the big media corporations don't touch, so I thought you might find it interesting: 11. What media criticism looks like in HungaryBy Charles Richardson It's to be hoped that Australian critics of supposed left-wing bias at the ABC are not taking lessons from their counterparts in Hungary. There, not content with verbal protests, right-wing demonstrators stormed and briefly occupied the headquarters of state television on Monday night. The violence came at the conclusion of mostly peaceful protests against the government of prime minister Ferenc Gyurcsany, who had been heard in a leaked recording admitting that his social democrats had lied their way to victory in last April's elections. The "lies", however, are not the sort that any informed observer would ever have believed; rather they involved telling voters that the economy was OK, the government knew what it was doing, and the budget deficit wouldn't stop it from implementing tax cuts instead of austerity measures. All untrue, but the only remarkable thing is that he actually admitted it. Gyurcsany's government is now trying to face up to its economic problems, and it is being suggested that he orchestrated the leaking of the tape himself in order to soften public opinion and showcase his hard-headedness – in much the way that France's Ségolène Royal was suspected of leaking candid pictures of herself in a swimsuit. The opposition FIDESZ party professes itself outraged at the recording, but its pitch to the electorate in April was even more populist than the government's. So far, public opinion doesn't seem to have swung dramatically in its favour. A poll taken on Monday showed 47% saying that Gyurcsany should stay in power, as against 43% that he should resign: similar proportions to the election result. There was further unrest in Budapest this morning, with mounted police using tear gas against protesters outside the social democrats' party headquarters, but there were no reported injuries. Continued violence by his opponents, albeit a small minority of them, is not likely to hurt Gyurcsany either. From Crikey
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Post by DaveTheRake on Sept 20, 2006 12:32:04 GMT 2
I have also heard somehing about the PM being the one that allowed the tape to be broadcasted; the problem with that opinion for me is that in nowadays polithical world, every little detail is so controlled that it's a bit strange that the tape would be so natural. I mean, the language he's using it's too plain to be really a subject of orchestrated maneouvers; I learnt in Pragmatics something about positive and negative face of the speaker; the use of swaring would threat the negative fave of the speaker, in this case the PM; parties use to control very much that kind of things, one thing is the PM admiting he has lied, another thing is the PM admiting they "screwed up" the whole economical system. For me the words he used are too much plain for being a controlled broadcasted videotape. But of course there's the possibility that this is parf of the plan to make it more easy to be believed.
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Sept 21, 2006 23:21:08 GMT 2
Thank you for your opinions. I was really interested in what others think of a scandal like this. First I also was happy, that people finally protest against the constant lying. But I’m really against vandalism made by hooligans during the nights. And I’m afraid that those riots will continue until 1 Oct., the day of municipal elections.
You can still ask why this lying is a problem here, because we all know that politicians usually lying. And Hungary also wanted to join EU as soon as possible, so they might have pictured our economy better than it was. First I also was happy, that people finally protest against the constant lying. Usually when politician says that he wasn’t telling the truth is only a drop in the bucket. However here, in Hungary it was a last drop in a glass. Here most people are concerned about the fact that politicians of the Socialist party are lying, because during the communism press was under censorship and the former Hungarian Socialist Worker Party(MSZMP) allowed only the good news to appear in the press. E.g.: The atomic catastrophe in Tschernobil in 1986 was announced three days later and people were informed about a smaller breakdown in the nuclear power station and they were told the wash the vegetables with plenty of water for cautiousness. Then in 1989 a democratic change has started, new parties appeared and censorship was repealed. People believed that they wouldn’t have to read between the lines anymore, since press became free and they would be informed about the truth. Then they experienced that elections are about politicians, who promise everything but later they can’t fulfill their promises due to different reasons (economical slowdown, inherited debts, unexpected floods, etc.) So in a way, politicians are liars. I voted on the last three elections. On these elections we really had two choose between two main parties, the right wing FIDESZ (= Young Democrats) and the left wing MSZP (Hungarian Socialist Party, the legal successor of the former Socialist Worker Party). The one who promised more won the elections. In 2002 and 2006 it was the Socialist Party. Moreover a huge percentage of people have experienced uncertainty of existence during the past 16-18 years. Thus the two main parties have about the same percentage of supporters. During the last elections FIDESZ kept saying that Socialists are lying, there are huge problems in the Hungarian economy. The majority of people still elected the socialists. Then the new government withdrew all the previous tax cuts in its first law. Restrictions are to be introduced in health care and education (e.g., teachers have to work two extra hours without payment). New taxes are introduced. Tuition fees are to be reintroduced without a proper scholarship or loan program. Finally the PM admits that he was lying and his government did nothing for the nation during the past four years. So in a way it is normal, that people feel that they are cheated and they were regarded as idiots. And in a democracy people should protest for their rights: a right for being informed properly and a right for not to be lead by people whose policy wasn’t chosen. On the other hand if Hungary’s situation is as bad as it is said, no party could cut the taxes and raise the salaries and old age pensions in the same time. And, since municipal elections are to be held soon, the opposite – which is unable to win the elections since 2002, due to the fact that they also lied under their governorship - can gain many votes in this situation.
As far as I’m concerned there are gossips about the PM that he leaked the tape, but yesterday it was announced that both the government and the opposites knew about a copy of that government meeting. If so, I think PM should have admitted lying before the tape appeared in the press.
And about obscenities in the PM's speech: though it is strikiing, unfortunately it is quite normal in Hungary that people are swearing. Even politicians and evn in the Parliament. A few years earlier this was a reason for ending the live broadcasts of the parliament's sessions.
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Post by A Kat Person on Sept 27, 2006 4:28:25 GMT 2
Thanks, Humppa, you are probably right, this isn't that amazing thing. I was just interested in the fact, that people living in democratic states what think of this case. I think a PM after admitting that he was cheating on the elections and his government falsified the data about the financial situation of their own country should resign. But as you have just written it is normal for you that politicians tell lies. It's not new for me, too, but I think there han't been an example so far for the fact that a leader admits lying. As a resident of a supposedly democratic country, I am quite impressed that your PM admitted his lying and cheating! I can't even begin to imagine our Liar-In-Chief admitting to anything like that! And of course one could never expect them to admit to any of the election fraud that's been going on for the last two elections! And even if they did admit it, I am too cynical to believe that the people of my country would actually get up and demand his resignation. Well, some people would, but probably not enough to make a difference. I think most people here are too complacent to do that.
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Post by Lionheart on Sept 27, 2006 10:16:21 GMT 2
About the Hungarian case... I fear the worst has yet to come... recently the European Union has released a statement that they back the hungarian government in their reforms... So it's the EU officials + Hungarian officials vs the people... I really do hope that they find a solution for this otherwise I fear for Hungary that the worst is yet to come...
It's a shame it has to go that way in Hungary... but I fear it will be the case soon for more countries which recently joined the EU... because strict regulations which come with memberships of the EU a lot of things had to be changed in those countries... mostly it resulted in a lot of reforms... while at elections, ofcourse, politicians promise only positive things.
That's another point... when coming to elections the truth is never told at least not the complete truth ( ok... lies like this don't happen too often) but durin elections you''ll always have to be aware of the fact that politicians are saying things to win souls for their party... to be the biggest... and only when they have a chance to put their plans through the negative points of their plans come out... so for me promises made during elections are always a bit of a moment where you'll have to take extra care I think...
That still doesn't mean that Gyurcsany ( spelling?) should've done what he did now... and it's a disgrace for the EU that they eve support a person who lies to his own people. I can image it that the EU wants the reforms to happen... and I guess they are necesary according to EU regulations... but then at least with another, more trusted, person as president over there I think...
Lionheart
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