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Post by warrior on Dec 1, 2007 2:50:16 GMT 2
Anyone else here have Native American ancestors?
This topic is for discussion of Native rights, history, culture, music etc. for anyone interested
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Post by Humppaporo on Dec 1, 2007 13:51:49 GMT 2
Okay. I wonder already for a long time about something. Are there bands who mix genuine Native Amerikan music with rock or metal? I searched several times, but i almost only found heaps of 'lounge' music like Sacred Spirit, which is imo a very good singing, ruined by a very ugly accompaniment. Same goes for songs of Robert Tree Cody, Rob Wallace and William Clipman. I have heard some quite commercial bands, like Brule, Robbie Robertson, Native Roots, Mary Youngblood etc. Then i know Joanne Shenandoah of which i like some songs, but also others not, because they sound to me, again, to commercial. The only band i know i like is Tomahawk (but maybe they do not use ethnic influences, to me (as not knowing much) it sounds like that). There must be more, not so commercial, no rap , no lounge, but well, something really good, strong mixture. Also looking for some ethnic Native Amerikan music, but i can only find old recordings, there must be folks who still sing this/ play this.
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Post by warrior on Dec 1, 2007 19:02:56 GMT 2
There is a band called Wabanag that mixes Native music from Canada with rock. They are quite good. There is one album from tomahawk that is metal/rock versions of Native American songs
Otherwise, it is very hard to find good Native music. So much shitty new age/lounge etc. out there!
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Post by Humppaporo on Dec 1, 2007 19:19:30 GMT 2
You are right, i forgot Wabanag.
I also looked for (and did not find) if the guy who performed 'Stone People' at the Nightwish dvd End of an Era, has made more music. His name is John Two-Hawks and he is so impressive in that song... it just gives me shivers.
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Ǽcen
Eagle
Posts: 168
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Post by Ǽcen on Dec 8, 2007 3:15:17 GMT 2
Guahaihoque is one I know of, from Colombia. They combine a sort of generic black/death sound with old Amerindian traditions. And they use actual ethnic instruments too. www.myspace.com/guahaihoquefolk I have some native ancestors from the Cherokee tribe, but it's back a few generations, so you wouldn't know from my appearance.
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Post by Humppaporo on Dec 22, 2007 0:24:16 GMT 2
Support Lakotas righteous struggle for independenceThe Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States. This is a great day, and an important threshold. All native nations should learn from this example, and figure out how similar actions could be done to regain rights to land that have been stolen. Yes we know that things take time, but one have to start somewhere. This is peoples rights in practice. Support the Lahkota nations struggle for indepence from the USA. Confront our politicians to take a clear point of view on this. lakotafreedom.com/www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States. "We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said. A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old. The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months. Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming. The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said. The treaties signed with the U.S. were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said. Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said. "This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution,'' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said. "It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent,'' said Means. The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence ? an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England. Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said. One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples ? despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws. "We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference. The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means. Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world. Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website. lakotafreedom.com/You can join this Myspace-group to support this: groups.myspace.com/eurolakota
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 5, 2008 1:29:42 GMT 2
It is so true...
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Post by Humppaporo on Feb 5, 2008 9:43:06 GMT 2
Despite that Vancouver is not in the USA, i think this article belongs here... www.mcgilldaily.com/view.php?aid=6953Always the same everywhere, money and power wins, and other values go down the drain. Any opinions on this?
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Post by A Kat Person on Feb 5, 2008 10:35:08 GMT 2
Okay. I wonder already for a long time about something. Are there bands who mix genuine Native Amerikan music with rock or metal? I searched several times, but i almost only found heaps of 'lounge' music like Sacred Spirit, which is imo a very good singing, ruined by a very ugly accompaniment. Same goes for songs of Robert Tree Cody, Rob Wallace and William Clipman. I have heard some quite commercial bands, like Brule, Robbie Robertson, Native Roots, Mary Youngblood etc. Then i know Joanne Shenandoah of which i like some songs, but also others not, because they sound to me, again, to commercial. The only band i know i like is Tomahawk (but maybe they do not use ethnic influences, to me (as not knowing much) it sounds like that). There must be more, not so commercial, no rap , no lounge, but well, something really good, strong mixture. Also looking for some ethnic Native Amerikan music, but i can only find old recordings, there must be folks who still sing this/ play this. You are right, I've wondered the same thing, and I haven't found anything yet. There is a lot of "New Age" type music combined with Native American. A LOT of it. And I've even heard of Native American Hip-Hop! but no metal. The closest thing I can think of - I believe in South America there are some bands who combine more South American Native type music with metal (but of course it's not the same thing as North American Native). I think this is simply because metal is more popular in South America. As it grows in popularity in the U.S., however, I would not be surprised to see new bands in that vein be created! There should be some pure ethnic Native American music though! I can't think of it off the top of my head - I don't own any mainly because I occasionally go to a pow-wow for this purpose, to hear it done live! Once you hear this stuff live, a recording doesn't really do it.. So, if you ever by chance come to the U.S. for a visit, try to attend a pow-wow, the chanting and drumming is out of this world. When I first heard Shaman, in fact, that is exactly what the Joik reminded me of (I had never heard of Joik before that!)
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Post by Lionheart on Feb 5, 2008 11:35:38 GMT 2
Despite that Vancouver is not in the USA, i think this article belongs here... www.mcgilldaily.com/view.php?aid=6953Always the same everywhere, money and power wins, and other values go down the drain. Any opinions on this? Having read the article I feel sort of double about it. a) They are against the Olympics for various reasons which are mainly related with the fear of big corporations wanting to "steal" their land after the Olympics etc etc. But... at the same time they refuse to use the options open to them to protest or to try to stop the building of the sites or whatsoever because: they don't recognize the canadian government etc. This is because of the culture difference... but at the same time they demand from the canadian government that they respect their culture. How can someone respect the cultural values of one another when he knows the other does not respect his cultural values, even though, like in this case, they may collide? b) If they truly are the native people there then caution should be taken with the building of the Olympic sites. But whether it truly is and whether the claim is a rightful one... i have no idea... probably it will be very hard, nearly impossible to support the claim with solid evidence.
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Nordican
Wolfcub
In the woods.
Posts: 45
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Post by Nordican on Feb 5, 2008 22:13:37 GMT 2
I'm Native American, though most of my ancestry is Northern European. I'm Crow and Ojibwe, though not much difference there in terms of location. Honestly I doubt you'd find a lot of metal fans in the Native American communities because from personal experience, the reservations are shitholes that look a lot like ghettos. And there's nobody to blame but the residents themselves. How hard is it to clean up your yard? Even so, they tune in with hip-hop because they feel subjugated which, by the way, they have all sorts of special rights normal Americans don't. I'm not alone in my thoughts and feelings, either, full-blooded Native Americans feel the same as I do. Hip-hop/rap, I guess, is apparently the music of all people kept down by the white man.
I'd just wish people would stop complaining and follow the examples of people who have done something with their lives. Though, I suppose complaining and taking welfare checks every month because of your skin color is an easier route. I'm sure (sarcasm here) all those who died for their peoples' rights to freedom are really happy with the results of their spilled blood. Right.
Though I'd support a Lakota freedom movement, it will never catch on because the US Government pays them for being born Native. Being a part of said Lakota nation would mean they would need to give up free money.
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Tumi
Eagle
Mari chi weu!
Posts: 146
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Post by Tumi on Feb 6, 2008 11:16:16 GMT 2
Hm, I haven't read enough about this case to say anything useful about it But what I wanted to share is that I'm reading 'Custer Died For Your Sins' by Vine Deloria atm and I'd recommend it to everyone who wants to know more about the position of native americans in contemporary America. And it's well-written also, with a lot of humour *happy with book*
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Post by dragnagen on Aug 10, 2008 8:25:58 GMT 2
I like this thread, so I'll try to revive it . I'm actually 100% Northern European in ancestry, but I spend a great deal of my time studying about Native American history and culture. Nothing is quite as cool as finding an arrowhead out in the woods and knowing the last person to touch it was an Indian from several hundred years ago. And I have always respected and tried to emulate their amount of respect for nature and animals, as well as their understanding of balance and mankind's role in nature and the earth. I've been looking for a Native American folk metal band for a long time, but so far I've found nothing. Not really surprised though. The American government has always tried to strip them of their culture. Pretty much assimilate or suffer, unfortunately. From what I've heard it seems like Native Americans have two choices: Stay on the reservation and eke out a living while trying to keep in touch with what's left of your culture or Leave and prosper, but completely lose touch with your own people. Because most of the reservations are so impoverished (unless they vote to have casinos ), the only way to actually make enough to survive and get an education is to leave. There's just simply no modern economic infrastructure there, and even those who remember the old ways don't have enough resources to continue living successfully in that manner. Quite sad, really.
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Post by branigan on Sept 7, 2008 4:09:53 GMT 2
I live in Oklahoma, and there are a lot of natives here; mostly Kiowa. Actually, one of my best friends is a descendant of three different tribes, and I have a few other friends who are Native American. They all listen to metal.
There still seems to be quite a few around here who listen to hip hop, but that shit's everywhere regardless.
As far as good Native American music goes, Robert Mirabal is pretty interesting. He's Pueblo and has rock-influenced music, although you may still hear some new age stuff in it from time to time.
Ulali, R. Carlos Nakai, Primeaux and Mike, and Joseph Firecrow also have some excellent songs. Tommy Wildcat is a Cherokee from Tahlequah, Oklahoma, and his music is very traditional with mostly flutes, drums, and singing. I can name off some more artists if anyone's interested.
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Post by dragnagen on Sept 8, 2008 10:06:41 GMT 2
Wow, I really liked some of the more traditional stuff from those artists...reminds me of a PE teacher I had who was 70 years old and a full blooded Cherokee (and very proud of it ). Sometimes she would bring along her drum (a lot like the Korpiklaani shaman drum) and play some traditional stuff. I still wish there that were some good Native American folk metal bands out there though because there are a lot of good myths, legends, and histories that could easily be written about. And great leaders of the past like Tecumseh, Osceola, Blue Jacket, Hiawatha, Little Turtle, and Chief Joseph could provide plenty of lyrical inspiration as well. Probably the closest thing I can think of to being Native American folk metal would be Great White Buffalo by Ted Nugent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ0zXAgECHg
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