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Post by aussieklaani on Feb 19, 2008 6:46:08 GMT 2
I think it is cheap, disgusting and anyone who does it, is cheating the bands that bring us so much joy.....
I personally buy all albums....
What do you do and what are your thoughts.
Discuss!
EDIT: Fixed the typo in the title. -K./mod.
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Post by frostheim on Feb 19, 2008 7:53:34 GMT 2
In my honest opinion, it's the albums or nothing, period.
The only "exception" is the MySpace -clips, official mp3-samples or temporary CD-loans from the library for getting the picture of a band/album before bying the albums, but what it comes to downloading full albums from the net -> no support of any kind from my direction for anything such, ever.
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Post by Nordis on Feb 19, 2008 10:46:52 GMT 2
In my honest opinion, it's the albums or nothing, period. The only "exception" is the MySpace -clips, official mp3-samples or temporary CD-loans from the library for getting the picture of a band/album before bying the albums, but what it comes to downloading full albums from the net -> no support of any kind from my direction for anything such, ever. Mainly same words from here. However, if I find an interesting band that doesn't have MySpace page I usually download a few songs from few different albums of theirs to hear what they are about. If I like them, I most likely buy their albums one day. If not, then not. I'm also not against of downloading stuff that is somewhat impossible to get otherwise like singles and EP's that saw their last official release ten or twenty years ago. I don't feel guilty even though I am listening downloaded The Pogues 7" B-sides at the moment If I find a box set of these somewhere, I'm sure to buy it. I'm totally against the downloading of full albums that you actually listen and could get easily from a record store. Have some dicipline! There are like 20 albums from my _favourite_ bands that I should buy but I'm always too broke to get any and still I don't want to download any of them.
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Post by jarmo on Feb 19, 2008 12:42:57 GMT 2
Normally I don't search specially for a certain band. Sometimes I check if there is something to download which has a promising name or something, I download it to see how it sounds. Then there are three posibilities: 1. I don't like the music, and I delete it 2. I like they music, but not enough to spend my scarce money on. But probably, when I have some money left I will buy some cd's 3. Bands I like very much (Týr, Korpiklaani, Lumsk, Amon Amarth, and some others), I will buy the cd's But I think that when I'm not a student anymore, and I'll have money to spend, I'll buy more cd's... But for now, only the most important cd's.
I think, on one way (non officially) downloadable albums help. For example: I didn't know about the Shaman music, well I knew the name from the website and forum, but nothing about the music. At a certain moment I found a place where I could download both albums, thus I did (friday afternoon). When I listened to the music, I was just flabbergasted, this resulted in an order at saterday afternoon. For known bands indeed, downloading is a problem. People know their style of music, and they download rather than buy. But for smaller bands the music and name are unknown, so downloading is a way to make the band more known, a side-effect is that people can listen to the music and decide to help the band.
And as Nordis said, there are for me also some cd's I want to have (buy in this case). But I haven't enough money for it now. (turisas newest, eluveitie newest, lumsk newest). But i want to hear them first from disc, and after that well, mp3 player or computer...
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Kerstin
Wolfcub
I love the Nordland!
Posts: 52
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Post by Kerstin on Feb 19, 2008 18:27:08 GMT 2
Downloading is a problem for all bands.
You find smaller unknown bands on download portals? I can't believe that. There you find only that, what you search. If you don't know a band you will not find this band in the downloads. That is a fact.
How do you know whether the band exists? From a website, a myspace profile or a music provider? Maybe you found the band on youtube or an other video portals. At least these are my sources. In the most cases you find there music files that you can hear. I think these are enough examples for a decision to purchase a album. Either you like the music or you don't like. Official online stores offer examples of the most titles and selecting single titles of one album. That is cheap enough and legal.
The problem is that it's so easy to download the albums. What would you do if you need a new car?
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budikah
Wolfcub
Kindred Spirit
Posts: 42
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Post by budikah on Feb 19, 2008 19:17:03 GMT 2
In response to Kerstin..
You -can- find smaller well known bands through download portals. I was surfing around one looking for some new bands and I found out Ayreon. YouTube also links off to related videos ect. This is how I discover a lot of new music.
What it really comes down to is the broken system thats in place. The price of CD's is too high.For some CD's here in the US its 20+ dollars for a normal 12-14 track CD - Thats currently a weeks worth of gas money for me. I believe its a blessing and a curse - getting out the bands name, ect definitely leads to more fans and people going to live shows.
Until they find an updated method of distribution then the problem will exist. No amount of legal threats from the labels is going to stop it.
I like to use it to get a taste of a band. With the price of CD's and living where I live (High) I really cant afford to go out and blow 20$ on a CD just to have it be crap.
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Post by Nordis on Feb 19, 2008 19:21:23 GMT 2
Downloading is a problem for all bands. You find smaller unknown bands on download portals? I can't believe that. There you find only that, what you search. If you don't know a band you will not find this band in the downloads. That is a fact. Actually that's far from a fact so you missed there. The pages work just like all other search engines, you don't have to Google with the band name either to find it From a review or a magazine? Those mediums don't contain any form of audio for you to judge. In most cases yes, but not in every case. Take me for an example: I was checking Enslaved and didn't like their new material at all, but I had heard that their old stuff was really different. I once heard one track on some metal radio show or so and liked it a lot. Now, be my guest and try to find their older material for listening from any official source and tell me how much luck you had finding it And I'd like to remind you that 99% of the stuff on YouTube is there without permission so I don't see how it would be any better than downloading a single track. If you have ten interesting bands which have released several albums and you want to form a good view of their music it certainly isn't that cheap anymore. And STILL, you can't find every artist on those services. I'd test drive it to see if I like it or not.
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Kerstin
Wolfcub
I love the Nordland!
Posts: 52
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Post by Kerstin on Feb 19, 2008 20:15:45 GMT 2
Ouch! Please don't hit me. Maybe I have a different understanding for this theme. But I'd never work without salary. Who'll not pay me can't get my manpower. (with exception of my family and friends of course ) In addition I didn't mean the old stuff you can buy nowhere. My post was related to the new stuff. I'd test drive it to see if I like it or not. A test drive means not that you can use this car until you'll be able to buy it. ...I'm a little rogue
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Post by curwen on Feb 19, 2008 20:29:47 GMT 2
Normally I don't search specially for a certain band. Sometimes I check if there is something to download which has a promising name or something, I download it to see how it sounds. Then there are three posibilities: 1. I don't like the music, and I delete it 2. I like they music, but not enough to spend my scarce money on. But probably, when I have some money left I will buy some cd's 3. Bands I like very much (Týr, Korpiklaani, Lumsk, Amon Amarth, and some others), I will buy the cd's But I think that when I'm not a student anymore, and I'll have money to spend, I'll buy more cd's... But for now, only the most important cd's. I think, on one way (non officially) downloadable albums help. For example: I didn't know about the Shaman music, well I knew the name from the website and forum, but nothing about the music. At a certain moment I found a place where I could download both albums, thus I did (friday afternoon). When I listened to the music, I was just flabbergasted, this resulted in an order at saterday afternoon. For known bands indeed, downloading is a problem. People know their style of music, and they download rather than buy. But for smaller bands the music and name are unknown, so downloading is a way to make the band more known, a side-effect is that people can listen to the music and decide to help the band. And as Nordis said, there are for me also some cd's I want to have (buy in this case). But I haven't enough money for it now. (turisas newest, eluveitie newest, lumsk newest). But i want to hear them first from disc, and after that well, mp3 player or computer... I have to agree with him, mostly because I have the same problem, the biggest part of the music I have is in mp3, and not in original disc because I'm still a student and I can't afford to have all teh cd's I would like to (when I have a job I'll try to have almost everythig, it's nice to have the originals , and also, most of the music I hear is from european countries, what makes almost impossible to find them here, or to expensive to get (the value of our currency is worth a 1/4 of euro, so whatever you pay $10, I have to pay it $40, and if to that you add the price of the shipping, it makes really expensive to get viking metal ). Apart from that, I think that it isn't that bad to have downloads, sometimes it helps a lot to make more knowed a underground band, and also, I like always to listen the cd a few times before buying it, to be sure I won't be throwing my money in something I liked because they placed their best song on the myspace when the rest of what they do is a piece of crap.
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Post by Lionheart on Feb 19, 2008 22:42:53 GMT 2
I have to agree with him, mostly because I have the same problem, the biggest part of the music I have is in mp3, and not in original disc because I'm still a student and I can't afford to have all teh cd's I would like to (when I have a job I'll try to have almost everythig, it's nice to have the originals , and also, most of the music I hear is from european countries, what makes almost impossible to find them here, or to expensive to get (the value of our currency is worth a 1/4 of euro, so whatever you pay $10, I have to pay it $40, and if to that you add the price of the shipping, it makes really expensive to get viking metal ). This is not true... Say 1 euro is 4 Argentinian peso ( am i right? we'll use it for the example.) For us europeans a cd will cost say 10 euro + shipping. For an argentinian it'll cost 40 peso. Only because one euro equals 4 peso. It's the same price only the figure is bigger. It's be the same for a bread... here it;d cost 2 euro... and in argentina the same bread would be 8 peso. Only the figure is different. But back to downloading: A simple fact: it's legal in at least the Netherlands so technically I can get a downloaded cd which is in fact official and fully legal. So only looking from a legal point of view there is nothing wrong with downloading for me ( being dutch.) Next up in line: Ethics Some say it is stealing if you download music... but is it really? I listen to it, I pass it on to a friend, he passes it on to friends, we decide to go to a concert with the guys we buy a shirt there etc etc. It is a bit like investing in a company: at first it costs lot of money, but eventually things will start coming back at you and itll earn you money. I'm very two sided about downloaidng: If it wasn;t for downloading there is NO way i would've listenend to the music i am listening to now, and i wouldn't have known about a big number of bands i do know about now. By actually buying the album you get a nice booklet, maybe some extra's if you ask nicely it gets signed etc etc. All very nice extra's which make the cd's worth their money. Basically in my opinion, if you really like a band you will want to buy their albums regardless of the price etc. But some bands you just like to listen to every now and then but that's it. Not worth the money to buy a cd but fun to listen at times. Bottom line for me: with the possibilities we have nowadays it is impossible to prohibit downloading one way or another. It is up to the individual to decide if he finds a band worthy enough to spend his well earned money on.
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Post by curwen on Feb 19, 2008 23:43:54 GMT 2
This is not true... Say 1 euro is 4 Argentinian peso ( am i right? we'll use it for the example.) For us europeans a cd will cost say 10 euro + shipping. For an argentinian it'll cost 40 peso. Only because one euro equals 4 peso. It's the same price only the figure is bigger. It's be the same for a bread... here it;d cost 2 euro... and in argentina the same bread would be 8 peso. Only the figure is different. The problem is that since the fake $1 = U$S1 fell down, the prices got dolarized, everything started to cost triple or quadruple, but the salaries didn't. We still got the same earnings for our work, not the 300% like it should be.
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Post by Nordis on Feb 20, 2008 1:15:20 GMT 2
Ouch! Please don't hit me. Maybe I have a different understanding for this theme. But I'd never work without salary. Who'll not pay me can't get my manpower. (with exception of my family and friends of course ) In addition I didn't mean the old stuff you can buy nowhere. My post was related to the new stuff. Hehe, nothing personal there The people that download or leak the new albums don't get my sympathy either, but I still have some kind of understanding for the people in such situation that GmT-Curwen is at the moment. I don't think that any artist would mind If there was one or even ten people in Ethiopia or North Korea that downloaded their albums just because it's impossible or ridiculously hard and expensive for them to buy them. Downloading is always better option than buying illegal copies (which sadly is a huge business in such countries), atleast outsider people or criminal organizations don't profit from it. It would be so easy if the world was just black and white. What do you consider worse: A person from UK downloads the whole Iron Maiden discography (10e per cd) even though he could just walk down the street and buy their albums for reasonable price, OR that the person next door from him downloads the X-Japan discography (11 albums including lives) because they have never been released in Europe and prices per imported cd would be around 40e (if compared to their original price of 10-20e)? Ofcourse we can just hit them both with an "all downloading is wrong!" -stamper, close the file and go to have a shot of vodka
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Post by aussieklaani on Feb 20, 2008 4:01:38 GMT 2
In my honest opinion, it's the albums or nothing, period. The only "exception" is the MySpace -clips, official mp3-samples or temporary CD-loans from the library for getting the picture of a band/album before bying the albums, but what it comes to downloading full albums from the net -> no support of any kind from my direction for anything such, ever. I agree - It will take me longer to get the new Korpiklaani Album - Being in Australia, Of course I could take the easy option and some scumbag that is sharing it online and download it, or I could be patient and wait for it to come via post. If you can't afford something today - save your money then buy it, don't steal it. Bands work hard for the coin......Sure some sit in the fast lane after they establish and gain success, but we all have the opportunity to try and do this......Many of us don't have the courage or ability. So reward the music you love by paying for it! Downloading is a scumbags game!
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Kerstin
Wolfcub
I love the Nordland!
Posts: 52
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Post by Kerstin on Feb 20, 2008 10:38:39 GMT 2
It would be so easy if the world was just black and white. What do you consider worse: A person from UK downloads the whole Iron Maiden discography (10e per cd) even though he could just walk down the street and buy their albums for reasonable price, OR that the person next door from him downl Ok, the world is colorful. No rule without exception. Good idea! Whenever you can ;D ;D ;D
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Post by drinkingtea on Feb 22, 2008 2:39:03 GMT 2
Tough call. I remember back in high school, we'd make mix tapes of songs we liked to trade among one another, which is pretty much the same thing but on a smaller scale. The vast majority of what I listened to in those years was discovered by doing that.
About nine years ago, I would go on Napster and search what other people that had other stuff I listened to liked to find new things. If I liked it, I'd buy it. If not, I'd delete it. I can think of about five bands that have sold CDs, shirts, and concert tickets to me as a direct result of that. I wondered if it would irritate a band or not to send them a couple of dollars and a note saying, 'I can't find anyone to sell your stuff to me after I downloaded it. It's really good. Here's a few bucks and a suggestion to find someone who I can send some money to who will ship it to me in Texas.' A lot of what I like can't be found on the radio or through regular sources where I am, so there is no way to find out about any of this without some electronic means. I love that bands will put songs on myspace or youtube now so I can hear what they sound like before tracking down a CD.
These days, I find out about new stuff through internet radio and youtube. The related links on youtube and the list of other things by the same user have introduced me to a ton of new music I never would have found out about otherwise.
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