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Post by Heer E. Tik on Dec 27, 2010 17:53:19 GMT 2
I have a question for discussion, but not worth to make a separate thread for it - this general discussion thread fits.
What are your thoughts about buying new music albums vs. buying them used? I think we all agree that we would rather buy a band's album instead of downloading it, to support the band and to make a statement to the label that this kind of music sells. But if someone buys a used copy of a CD, then it's like a ghost CD - the statistic of this sale doesn't go anywhere, and the label never learns that it has been sold. One single CD can have a long history of being sold and re-sold and auctioned on e-bay and resold again many times, yet it still counts in the stats only for the first time it was officially bought when new.
Ergo: Is buying used CDs kind of like downloading? An open question to all.
As for myself, I'm trying to buy new copies of albums of the bands whom I really want to support, and in that way I consider my money as a donation and a statement of interest to the bands' respective labels. It demonstrates demand for this kind of music. Sure, one purchase is a drop in the ocean, but I do my part. Either I do it at the store, or through some online distro. If an album is out of print, or is some underground rarity, of course then I'd hunt myself down a used copy if I'm lucky. If there's a band I don't want to support, I wouldn't be listening to it anyway... So I don't buy albums often, but when I do I know where my money is going.
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Post by Arivse on Dec 27, 2010 18:03:27 GMT 2
Really good question! What I think is, that buying used CDs, is like dowloading music from the internet, expect you pay for the first buyer on the CD deal.. So if I have to choose for buying used CDs or downloading, I would go for the downloading and save my money for a new CD which supports the band I want, and not the used CDs seller And what comes to the owning the CD, I myself just flip the CD on my computer, turn it to bits and listen it from my hard drive. Never owned a good CD player, just good speakers and a computer So for me, owning the real disc aint the thing, its just the music. So I don't mind buying digital copies either.
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Post by Mighty Croc on Dec 31, 2010 11:19:02 GMT 2
If it's a damn rarity, why not buying a used one? And if it's not, it's of course better to buy a new CD.
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Post by Nordis on Jan 3, 2011 21:45:37 GMT 2
Really good question! What I think is, that buying used CDs, is like dowloading music from the internet, expect you pay for the first buyer on the CD deal.. So if I have to choose for buying used CDs or downloading, I would go for the downloading and save my money for a new CD which supports the band I want, and not the used CDs seller So if you can't afford a new car, it's better to steal one rather than buy used? As far as I know, there's very few ways to really support the band financially. Go to their gig and buy their t-shirt, album and maybe a badge, or order the album straight from the band's own webshop or maybe from their label if it's a small one. With the first option you'll most likely make the band more money than you would by buying their whole discography three times. I don't know perfectly how the copyright system works, but I suppose the sales that the copyright payment is based on are the sales that go from label to distributors, not from the distributors to customers. If it is so, then it doesn't matter if the stores dumped all the cds to junkyard as the artist would still get their money. Ofcourse, if people buy the albums the stores will order more , but the support for the artist is still indirect and really low. The reseller, mass distributors and logistics always get their giant chop from the retail price, meanwhile the band that sells their music directly can cut a lot of those branches and make more money for themselves. If you buy some 20 years old album the artist won't most likely ever see a pinch of your bucks. I.e. Iron Maiden sold their copyrights for everything older than Virtual XI about ten years ago, so their golf carts won't run out of fuel if you bought their cd used Besides, it's pretty hard to find any brand new albums on the used cd shelves. I guess that's why they tour so much, as they still get paid for every song that they play live. Needless to say, I buy my albums used as often as possible. Ofcourse there are some bands which' albums I want to get right on the release day, but I listen a lot of old music and prefer limited editions which isn't really a good combination. I just bought a bunch of 70's and early 80's music as new re-issue cds, each for about 4e and some by already deceased songwriters. So no, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter a jack's shit if I bought those albums used
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Post by Bartbär on Jan 3, 2011 22:42:15 GMT 2
I'd have to agree with Nordis, although I still say if you want to buy new than sure as heck go for it! I'm not completely savvy on the whole music industry, but from what I've learned through interviews and friends who are in the music business making money off of CD's is very minuscule. The bigger the label the more minuscule the profits are. Concerts and merchandise is where the money is at, because there is no real label market on these products, the labels main revenue is through CD sales by way of promotion, copyrights, and licenses on the music itself. Merchandise and shows have no real market value, there is no creative ownership to a T-Shirt outside the artists design, and thus merch and shows are always great sources of income for the band. CD's at 10 dollars a piece (at the absolute lowest that is, and that is EXTREMELY rare) is a pretty small cut, but even smaller when percentages and royalties are divided. Even my friend who works and has worked in the music scene in the past was only going to be making a fairly small amount on CD sales after being signed, and that was for an indie label. They sell CD's at roughly 10 dollars a piece, and give the band half the sales, but if they only print say 1000 CD's than the band can only make a maximum of 5,000 dollars, and that's ONCE all Cd's are sold. Sure that's still a pretty good deal, but that much can be made through tours and merchandising alone. Playing at a local bar in my area pays roughly 4-500 dollars a set, not much money once divided between 4 or more band members, but still in a number of sets on a small tour is still a good chunk of change, and that's not including merch sales. (Of course if those CD's sell at the concerts than an extra 5000 dollars is a nice chunk of change, so surely buy new CD's where you can!) Although I do enjoy buying new CD's wherever possible I also realize that I'm not exactly rich. I'd much rather download an album or buy it used for free or cheap and save up for a concert than to buy the CD's but not be able to afford the concerts. Sure it's not like concerts ever come through here, but to me listening to music in itself is an act of supporting the band: you'll take that CD and share it with others, those who like it will in turn do the same, and finding even 2 other people to enjoy a band who will go out and buy their music, merch, and go to their shows, is priceless to any band looking for support. Having said that though the whole nature of this is very ambiguous. There is no possible way to completely determine what the best possible way to support every single band is: indie bands can be better supported in ways that major bands cannot and vice-versa, so I guess it all comes down to what each person thinks is right in supporting their favorite projects. I guess that's the benefit to listening to mostly indie and underground music: support for those bands is easy to come by, especially considering it's not their dream to make a living off music, but merely to make music off their living. Heck, even our beloved Klaani members have to work jobs outside of their awesome music career! It's a shame all bands as good as them can't make a living off music, but the days of truly being a rockstar are slowly fading away.... that's another discussion though. Another argument to make is that for a number of the people I know who've purchased used CD's it was after already purchasing and selling the new CD's to begin with. Used CD's in that sense can be good for someone is looking at regaining a lost/stolen/sold collection without breaking their bank, afterall a poor fan isn't much support to anyone. (I guess that's why I'm a lousy fan! haha)
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Post by Arivse on Jan 4, 2011 8:07:11 GMT 2
So if you can't afford a new car, it's better to steal one rather than buy used? I knew someone would say something like this Okey lets think this on different aspect. I like the music that the band does, I like to support them on allways possible (going to gigs, buying merchandises inc albums, T-shirts, badges etc.) And I have two options (Lets think that the price cap aint so big, only 1-10€ per item) to buy new ones, or buy them used. I walk thru a market where are their shop and a shop that sales secondhand stuff. I have 30€ to spend: I walk to the second hand shop and see a bargain, T-shirt 12€, badges 1€, CD's 8€ and so on. I buy: 1 T-shirt (I bargain it to 10€, it had some paint on its sleeve), 2 CD's (2x8=16€) and 4 badges (4x1=4€) Total cost 30€. Okey how much of my money is going to the band? 0€ So buying all the cool stuff I wanted, I supported the band for 0€ nice deal for me, but not to the band. Okey lets rewind it a bit, I still have the 30€, I walk straight to the bands "own" shop and see these brices: T-shirt 18€, CD's 20€, badges 2€. Okey prices are higher than on the secondhand shop, so I'm able to buy less stuff, lets say 1 of each, thats 30€ And now to the fun part, where we "calculate" how much money goes to the band on each item. Lets say T-shirts costs 10€ for the band, so thats 8€ profit. From every CD the band gets 1/4 its price, on this case 5€ and from badges they get 1/2 so thats 1€ Total € to the band is 14€. Okey lets compare that 14€ to the 0€.. See my point? Note: Those prices were just made up on my sleepy head, so was the "calculate" part so I'm not saying that it goes like that, but I hope you got my point on this. You have 2 options, to buy more for yourself and give 0€ to the band or to buy less and give some to the band. Think which case the bandmembers would prefer? I know money can be a issue, I myself am a poor student myself too, it all comes to prioritizing, what do you do with your money. I spend less on food, cloths, drinking, partying, furniture, technology etc. So that I can travel, go to gigs and buy stuff I really like to have. I allso cut my freetime sometimes to go to work. That might been little offtopic, but still it was ment to support my point And how I'm able to get to known new bands and their music? Well first, being on this kind of forum helps a lot, ppl with same taste of music shareing info and links on youtube from a band that they like is awsome, founded so many great bands from this site and on others too. Second, as said youtube is good way to search for new bands, so is Spotify, if I know bands name and want to listem them a little bit more before I go and buy their album, I use spotify, don't know if its better than youtube (bands get very minor fee from each played song, but thats so small that can't really say if its even a fee). And third, I use friends, I go to their place, borrow their CD's, mp3 and so on. Listem them and deside if I like the music or not. And for last, no I wouldn't steal a car And now that I'm thinking, I haven't downloaded a single song for my self, spotify and youtube are so easy to use as a musicplayers that I don't need to. But I have to admit I have few mp3 from friends and haven't bought the album yet, maybe someday when I have enough money to do that
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Post by Nordis on Jan 4, 2011 11:28:44 GMT 2
I walk to the second hand shop and see a bargain, T-shirt 12€, badges 1€, CD's 8€ and so on. I buy: 1 T-shirt (I bargain it to 10€, it had some paint on its sleeve), 2 CD's (2x8=16€) and 4 badges (4x1=4€) Total cost 30€. Okey how much of my money is going to the band? 0€ So buying all the cool stuff I wanted, I supported the band for 0€ nice deal for me, but not to the band. Okey lets rewind it a bit, I still have the 30€, I walk straight to the bands "own" shop and see these brices: T-shirt 18€, CD's 20€, badges 2€. Okey prices are higher than on the secondhand shop, so I'm able to buy less stuff, lets say 1 of each, thats 30€ Ofcourse there's a huge difference with the band's own merchandise store and some supermarket. On the first one the bands sell their stuff directly, thus getting more profit for themselves. So ordering albums straight from the band is always better than handing the money for some corporation Ofcourse all the bands don't have their own webshops, and in that case I go to a small record store to buy their brand new albums. Doesn't matter if the album is euro or two more expensive there, atleast I know that I help a private business stay up and running rather than giving my money to a giant chain store where it wouldn't even matter if I stole the album. And come on, you really can't find used band t-shirts and badges that easily
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Post by Arivse on Jan 5, 2011 2:59:46 GMT 2
And come on, you really can't find used band t-shirts and badges that easily T-shirts are easy to find, a small guy like me can find lots of options from normal size to a tent.. But I agree on badges, those are hard to find, only seen few on secondhand shops, but wasn't what I wanted
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Post by noncho on Mar 1, 2011 10:31:54 GMT 2
Today(1 march) there is a tradition here in Bulgaria called Baba Marta. Some info from wiki: Martenitsa (Bulgarian: мартеница) is a small piece of adornment, made of white and red yarn and worn from March 1 until around the end of March (or the first time an individual sees a stork, swallow or budding tree). The name of the holiday is Baba Marta. "Baba" (баба) is the Bulgarian word for "grandmother" and Mart (март) is the Bulgarian word for the month of March. Baba Marta is a Bulgarian tradition related to welcoming the upcoming spring. The month of March, according to Bulgarian folklore, marks the beginning of springtime. Therefore, the first day of March is a traditional holiday associated with sending off winter and welcoming spring.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 10:59:01 GMT 2
Yes, it's a beautiful tradition and..I don't have time to say more, except I am wearing a white and red thread on my wrist. Happy 1st March to everyone!
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Post by wolferin on Mar 1, 2011 14:22:35 GMT 2
Happy and healthy!
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stan
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Post by stan on Mar 1, 2011 15:50:41 GMT 2
õåõå, èçáÿãàõ çà ìàëêî îò "ãîëÿìîòî êè÷åíå" â îôèñà è òóê ñå íàòðåñîõ íà.... ×åñòèòà Áàáà Ìàðòà è íà âàñ, çäðàâè è çàñìåíè
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Post by wolferin on Mar 2, 2011 2:14:18 GMT 2
On the 3rd of March is our national holiday - Liberation from Turkish rule. It is due to the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–1878. People from different nationalities fought for our freedom - Romania, Serbia and Monte Negro were allies to Russia and in the structure of Russian army there were Finns, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Ukranians, Byelorussians, Georgians, etc. The Finnish battalion participated in the battles near Gornij Dubnjak (Горни Дъбник) village. This is the monument in the Lavrov park in the Gorni Dabnik village. (The commander of the battalion was gen. Vassilii Lavrov). I found in the net a song of the Finnish soldiers at that time - Kauan on kärsitty: Kauan on kärsitty vilua ja nälkää Balkanin vuorilla taistellessa. Oi kallis kotimaa, Suomi sulo Pohjola, ei löydy maata sen armaampaa. Musiikki se pelasi, kun pojat ne marssi Gornij Dubnjakin valleille. Oi kallis kotimaa, Suomi sulo Pohjola, ei löydy maata sen armaampaa. Poikia on haudattuna Balkanin santaan toiselle puolelle Tonavan. Oi kallis kotimaa, Suomi sulo Pohjola, ei löydy maata sen armaampaa. Jos ruumiimme kuolee, niin sielumme jääpi perinnöksi armahan syntymämaan. Oi kallis kotimaa, Suomi sulo Pohjola, ei löydy maata sen armaampaa. Hurraa, nyt komppania kotiamme kohti Suomemme suloisille rannoille! Oi kallis kotimaa, Suomi sulo Pohjola, ei löydy maata sen armaampaa. Lyrics in English: Long we have suffered hunger and cold Fighting in the Balkan mountains. Oh precious fatherland, Finland sweet North, There is no land more dear to us The music played as our boys marched to the walls of Gornij Dubnjak. Oh precious fatherland, Finland sweet North, There is no land more dear to us Boys lie buried in the sands of the Balkan On the other side of the Danube Oh precious fatherland, Finland sweet North, There is no land more dear to us If our bodies die, then our souls remain a heritage for our beloved fatherland Oh precious fatherland, Finland sweet North, There is no land more dear to us Hurra, now our company is heading for home the sweest shores of Finland Oh precious fatherland, Finland sweet North, There is no land more dear to us This is a TV reportage about the participation of Finland in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–1878 (in Bulgarian), where they are talking about the song:
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Post by Arivse on Mar 8, 2011 10:15:34 GMT 2
In Finland we have today the woman's day. I guess its world wide happening. So have a great woman's day all you Battle maidens!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 17:22:32 GMT 2
In Finland we have today the woman's day. I guess its world wide happening. So have a great woman's day all you Battle maidens! It's happening in more than 50 countries I think (not sure though). Including here (btw, you got ahead of me with wishing, hehe)..so , to all Klaanish Ladies, a very merry day!
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