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Post by azurae on Mar 26, 2011 0:50:47 GMT 2
Hello everyone! It is my first time posting, but I have been a fan of Korpiklaani's music and lurking in the forums on and off for quite a while now. Anyway, I'll start off by saying that I am a student in the U.S. studying history and anthropology. I am beginning a new project on how metal music (esp folk metal) is keeping history and folklore relevant and interesting to younger generations, and in some ways helping to keep oral traditions alive. I would like to ask you all (and would greatly appreciate) your thoughts and opinions on this. My thanks in advance!
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Post by Bartbär on Mar 26, 2011 4:56:51 GMT 2
Hello Azurae, firstly formally welcome to the forum, although you've been lurking around it for awhile now. I'd like to applaud your efforts and your studies. History and Anthropology are both absolutely wonderful subjects, and are an excellent combination to focus on together. Indeed folk metal has done a wonderful job of keeping folklore alive. This is especially the case with Finnish and Estonian bands, two small countries whose folklore has only been appreciated by the inhabitants of those countries, and even then many times there is less appreciation than perhaps what their should be. For instance Metsatöll has managed to bring a great deal of interest into Estonian mythology, as well as Estonian culture, politics, etc. Who would have thought that such a small country could gain so much interest by the mere artwork of national musicians? Writing songs about mythology and tradition in their native language is a very intriguing concept. Although I must say that this is admittedly a double-edged blade. For instance, those who are truly intrigued by the music may gain a deep interest for the country and culture it comes from, which can in turn spark a desire to learn the language and thus better understand the traditions and cultures. However on the other side, the exclusive attitudes of certain bands in regards to lyrics, namely in not providing translations, isolates fans and can wane the interest towards the culture. Now although I greatly love and admire these bands' efforts and intentions since I myself am a lover of language, I recognize that it's hard to draw a connection with something if you don't understand it. One can love Finnish mythology all they want, but if they can't understand the language of it than it's quite a shame. Regardless of that double-edged sword though, these bands still do introduce the concepts and help preserve the history and the cultures of their native countries. Even if a person gets turned off by not being able to understasnd the lyrics (which is a common problem in the United States, where most people have a slight ethnocentric air about them and are turned away the moment they don't understand something) they at least have been introduced to the country, the culture, the people, the language, etc. And THAT does indeed have a lasting tradition! Next time they turn on the news and hear something about Finland, Hungary, etc etc etc They will stop to listen to it and gain a more encompassing perspective of the world, which is quite refreshing since many people, again especially in the states as you may well know, are much more focused on what directly effects them. I hope to see much more discussion come out of this thread. It is quite an intriguing topic! Please do keep us posted on any further work you are doing in this area, and if your project ever yields a research paper, and you are in want of peer opinion and discussion, I'd be more than happy to take a look. Good luck!
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Post by azurae on Mar 27, 2011 6:43:47 GMT 2
Thank you very much for your kind words! And I truly appreciate that you think it's a worthy topic, It is good to be able to look into something that combines academic and outside interests, whenever possible! You bring up a good point about the double edged blade. While I personally love to hear songs from other languages and cultural perspectives, I see and agree with your point that they can potentially erect barriers for people who don't necessarily want to put the time and effort into delving headlong into figuring out lyrics. Although I do think that even if someone doesn't fully understand the songs, but still finds themselves rocking out or otherwise enjoying it, there is still a cross-cultural connection being made. And if it prompts them to reach out and study a region or language, awesome! Of course, as you said, that depends on the person listening for longer than 20 seconds. (I hear you about the ethnocentrism in the U.S. - which still astounds me considering the amount and variety of people we have here, and the relative infancy of the nation as a whole.) Basically, I arrived at the question when a professor started to lecture about how she feels that much folklore and cultural history from around the world is being lost or abandoned these days. And while I agree that it is a problem (because I see the folklore of different groups and their unique cultural perspectives as absolutely vital to understanding history), I couldn't help but think that music in particular is playing a role as an important preservation measure (whether musicians do so willingly or not, because I once knew a guy in a garage band that insisted any reference to historical content was purely for brutality's sake, haha) The goal at first was to write a research paper, but I didn't have anywhere to go with it once it was done. Now, one of my profs wants to hear about my findings, so I'm looking int things much more seriously. I might just take you up on the peer review offer when it comes down to the end But that's another reason I'm looking for a discussion - one can never know how an idea comes off if there's no back and forth
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seana
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Post by seana on Mar 27, 2011 9:40:01 GMT 2
I agree that this is an interesting topic, although I unfortunately can't say much about it because I'm very new to Folk Metal. But as for the language problem: for me it doesn't matter what language lyrics are, it's the music itself that appeals to me. I'm afraid I cant find the right words to say what I mean but I'll try I don't have to understand the words when I can "feel" what the musician wants to say with the song. I's enough for me to have an idea what the song ist about. For example the musik of Korpiklaani sparked my interest in finnish folk music in general and also in the mythology and language of the country. And I still don't understand the lyrics ;D It was the same with irish gaelic songs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2011 13:18:19 GMT 2
For example the musik of Korpiklaani sparked my interest in finnish folk music in general and also in the mythology and language of the country. And I still don't understand the lyrics ;D It was the same with irish gaelic songs. Same here! ;D
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Post by wolferin on Mar 27, 2011 16:22:11 GMT 2
As Jarkko said in this video, when people do not understand the language, they accept it as an another musical unstrument. www.youtube.com/watch?v=U81jSjI_a6IFolk metal is a little "boutique" music, one must have mind, heart and soul to go through the cultural barrier, not only language, but even way of thinking and representing the story. Folk metal is a way to give new life to old traditions, myths, instruments. The folklore is dealing with eternal values, not always so easy to see, sometimes reprisented in a raw way, but they lie in the foundaments of life for milleniums. Folk metal is making this more accessible for the contemporary people and helping to make connection with our roots, even not just for one given nation, but for the mankind as a whole.
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stan
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Post by stan on Mar 28, 2011 11:02:30 GMT 2
folk/pagan metal is a new wave of eu metal, which followed and took the place of the already dead eu gothic metal. and will be dead itself in no more than 4 years from now wish you good luck!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 14:48:39 GMT 2
folk/pagan metal is a new wave of eu metal, which followed and took the place of the already dead eu gothic metal. and will be dead itself in no more than 4 years from now wish you good luck! My prophetic radar says different things! ;D ;D which only time shalt reveal, and not my words! ;D
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Post by ingrid on Mar 28, 2011 15:49:00 GMT 2
Nice project!! I've studied History and I wanted to do a project in my master about how old medieval text are still used nowadays in modern music, but I never got to that unfortunatelly.
Ofcourse a part of this wave of folk and pagan is grounded in not to forget ones roots/history in all the multicultural communities we live in nowadays, but I guess there's a lot more!
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stan
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Post by stan on Mar 28, 2011 16:51:03 GMT 2
folk/pagan metal is a new wave of eu metal, which followed and took the place of the already dead eu gothic metal. and will be dead itself in no more than 4 years from now wish you good luck! My prophetic radar says different things! ;D ;D which only time shalt reveal, and not my words! ;D yes, my dear, you are right! in your case it is different - you'll be sick of it in 2 years,not in 4 ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 16:57:46 GMT 2
yes, my dear, you are right! in your case it is different - you'll be sick of it in 2 years,not in 4 ;D I'll be sick all right, my not-so-dear!!!! Only if I don't have my dose of folk metal till I die. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 18:25:46 GMT 2
I wish to go back to my first ideas in this thread, and congratulate Azurae for this project. It's a lot to do, and a path not easy to take, but you have the courage I see. So I guess, you'll have to go to numerous sources , literary (those who keep the gathered lore throughout history) and musical , and there are so many myths and bands to take in account... Suppose it will be made out of pieces (or used as secondary sources) like these gupea.ub.gu.se/bitstream/2077/23798/1/gupea_2077_23798_1.pdf , www.metalfromfinland.com/finland/kalevala , www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/assimilation/ , www.experiencefestival.com/wight_-_wights_in_norse_mythology_and_scandinavian_folklore , and lots of other books, booklets, etc. It's a great opportunity of research.
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Post by wolferin on Mar 28, 2011 21:15:26 GMT 2
folk/pagan metal is a new wave of eu metal, which followed and took the place of the already dead eu gothic metal. and will be dead itself in no more than 4 years from now wish you good luck! I think this is very one-side point of view, taking into account only the most shallow fashion of 1-2 folkish tunes and "cheers" songs. The time will wash away the one-day bands, which appear in every style, comming on the top of the wave, but the really good bands will remain. Not every fan cares about the construction of the music itself, because most (like me) are musical laiks and they just like the melodies and the sound. Folk metal has big potential, because takes inspiration from practically endless "well" - the traditional and ethnical music. About me, I can say, I've been wayting for many years this style to appear, seeing the seeds here and there. Now they've given a harvest and I'm having a feast. ;D I like folklore and all good sounding experiments with it are welcome for me.
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Post by Heer E. Tik on Mar 29, 2011 0:02:59 GMT 2
Post content deleted and overridden by Heer E. Tick.
I have decided to stop spilling my elaborate thoughts on the web in answer to people who are obviously fishing for free and anonymous insights to appropriate into their own research. It is painfully obvious that the starter of this topic has no interest in legitimately engaging the forum and becoming a part of the posting community, nor an interest in keeping the said community updated regarding the progress of this legitimately interesting research. Given these factors, I refuse to have the fruit of many hours of my time (aka my long posts in response to the productive discussion which resulted in this thread) floating on the free world wide web for any lazy lurking pseudo-armchair-academic to pick up.
Though I have decided to delete the contents of my posts in this thread, I have saved this content on an external source. If anyone of the long time members of this forum thinks that I have made a mistake in this reasoning or this reaction, and thinks that my deletions are interrupting the flow of the thread, please let me know. There is a chance I may add the contents back, but I hope that you can understand or at least appreciate why I feel and think about this as I do.
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stan
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Post by stan on Mar 29, 2011 12:46:56 GMT 2
wow, what a nice thread we have. @ Wolferin: “I think this is very one-side point of view…” Yes it is, and is the opposite of the other one-sided point of view that folk metal is “helping to keep oral traditions alive“ or being some music “preservation” of …. whatsoever. In my opinion Folk metal (or any postmodern art) could only be a quotation, citation, but that’s not “preservation”. Heer E. Tik very well emphasized on that aspect (in a different way). And also very well lay particular stress on “Who talks & To whom talks” phenomenon. I emphasized on “to whom”, but more in a meaning of quantity & time & market. Generally: could we talk about “preservation” if we face “a tide”, which grows and falls (as a Mexican wave) in only few years? I mentioned gothic metal purposely. Well, where’s that tide nowadays? Recent epitaph I read about it (few months ago) was some report that Theatre of Tragedy would like to make a DVD with some old material from “good old times”. BUT: have NO money to do it. So they asked their fans to donate as much as they can. In return – their names will be written on the DVD booklet. Damn: now that’s a real tragedy of theatre – to be able to write names of your true fans on a booklet… Or just look at NB magazine: “hornspitze kolskeggr, hornspitze ulfar, Thor hammer, Hammer of Thor, Thor with hammer, hammer without Thor, Thor Hammer Original…”. And only one “kerze skull” or “Bierglass Skelethand”. Damn: where all this “world of glass” has gone? Broke to pieces (sirenia, mortemia, tristania). Why so? They used to “take inspiration from practically endless "well" “- the mighty Gothic? Yes, Wolferin: “well” might be endless, but sources of a single metal scene (genre) are NOT endless. Sorry. (and please, Wolferin, tell about the endless well to Eluveitie, cause they started playing one and the same album again & again). Now, my dear and not-so-dear ladies, the idea of limitations of a genre leads me to the point of time – or “Time to reveal” (Heer E.Tik how could YOU write this at the end of THAT post? You ruined everything ) “The time will wash away the one-day bands, which appear in every style, coming on the top of the wave, but the really good bands will remain. Not every fan cares about the construction of the music itself, because most (like me) are musical laiks and they just like the melodies and the sound.” But if one DOES care about construction might notice that “bands which remain” after the tide goes down (as a Mexican wave) are these, who deal with a lot of musical paradigms. One good example - black metal nowadays. Look who survived and stands strong: enslaved, ihsahn, dimmu borgir, vreid, ov hell, leprous. Even Darkthrone blends old-school black with punk. And almost every one of these artist claims that he don’t know if there is something like "black metal scene" in Norway yet. But if there is – he’s not part of it… Cause he is doing something different. Which means: change, not preservation. New tide. New ideas. Hope you’ll get what I mean, even with my English. ‘In long terms we are all dead in 100 years”- hope I quote well. In a short one – Tiina will stay as a mark of time to remind us where It all started: Kalevala Kisses. Horns up!
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