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Post by Bartbär on Nov 2, 2010 6:43:11 GMT 2
Arivse: When talking about putting relationships aside I forgot that I was very unclear. Although I was partially referring to my ability to put infatuations aside (which is always easy) but also my ability to put old friendships and the like aside. And I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I did feel that immense love and immense pain upon it's departure, and even though it was one of the worst pains I've felt (certainly the worst emotional pain... although my current stress is up there, haha) I enjoyed it because at least I felt alive, I felt... human. For many years I've gone without even the slightest romantic feeling of love, and it makes me feel as if I'm not alive, or if I'm missing out ons omething. I'd like to be hurt so dramatically once again if in the very least it meant I could feel again. And to both of you: I'd agree completely: age means nothing in terms of wisdom. Not even education or any other means of classification can be the sole attribute in ones wisdom. Like my cultural anthropology professor said: "I don't use bullshit doctoral titles, because I've seen people who have never even set foot in a college run intellectual circles around even the most learned graduate". He also said that even the smartest scientist out there is stupid when put up against someone from a hunter-gatherer society. Off topic, but still part of the same concept: age, status, education, you can be young poor and never attended class and still be a damn intelligent person.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2010 9:43:35 GMT 2
My only excuse is that I am getting old. Don't worry, I don't judge you by your age ;D That's a relief! ;D I dunno whether to put you on my adoption list or in my will ( testament),hahaha... Yes, things are good when one's not judgemental. Actually what I really and seriously meant is that tis great having such thinking and early in your life. Saves you from failures.
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Post by Socke on Nov 2, 2010 10:30:44 GMT 2
And I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I did feel that immense love and immense pain upon it's departure, and even though it was one of the worst pains I've felt (certainly the worst emotional pain... although my current stress is up there, haha) I enjoyed it because at least I felt alive, I felt... human. For many years I've gone without even the slightest romantic feeling of love, and it makes me feel as if I'm not alive, or if I'm missing out ons omething. I'd like to be hurt so dramatically once again if in the very least it meant I could feel again. I can kind of relate to that, maybe not to the extent that I would say I would like to feel that again or enjoy it, but while I sometimes thought I'd like to be able to put all feelings aside so things couldn't hurt me anymore it's in fact the worst if you just don't feel anything at all and are completely indifferent towards everything. At that point just nothing matters anymore and you could just as well be dead. Even though I curse it sometimes and think it messes my life up, to me it feels that it's better to have really good times and really bad times and properly live through them instead of having just average times all along the way, at least it makes me feel, as you said, alive. And that doesn't apply to love only but to life in general.
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Post by Arivse on Nov 2, 2010 15:15:20 GMT 2
That's a relief! ;D I dunno whether to put you on my adoption list or in my will ( testament),hahaha... Yes, things are good when one's not judgemental. Actually what I really and seriously meant is that tis great having such thinking and early in your life. Saves you from failures. Yea I knew what you ment, I just have bad habbit to tease people Sorry for that And please don't put me on your will, I'm bad waiting things that happen after very long time ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2010 15:35:25 GMT 2
That's a relief! ;D I dunno whether to put you on my adoption list or in my will ( testament),hahaha... Yes, things are good when one's not judgemental. Actually what I really and seriously meant is that tis great having such thinking and early in your life. Saves you from failures. Yea I knew what you ment, I just have bad habbit to tease people Sorry for that And please don't put me on your will, I'm bad waiting things that happen after very long time ;D It's ok, you're in the right place , with the right people. Hahaha, ok, then I'll just put you on the adoption one.
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Post by Bartbär on Nov 2, 2010 18:48:29 GMT 2
Perfectly stated Socke. And that state of nothingness in emotion is exactly where I've been for what feels like forever now. But I'm not sure how to get out of it, haha. I can never experience the good for long enough to make the bad profound, and thus it becomes easy just to shun the entire emotion altogether. Again, my mind trumps emotion, when I know it's not worth it I can't bring myself to be brought down by it. But perhaps that just means I haven't gotten the chance to experience a truly profound emotion yet... hmm... my thoughts confuse me, haha. But yes, would be nice to experience all. And I can do that with friends for sure, although aside from family I only have one friend that I see in person. It's all good though and greatly enjoyable. It's mostly the relationship aspect that I have problems with... well, I have a lot of problems, haha, but I'll just keep that to myself. I can kind of relate to that, maybe not to the extent that I would say I would like to feel that again or enjoy it, but while I sometimes thought I'd like to be able to put all feelings aside so things couldn't hurt me anymore it's in fact the worst if you just don't feel anything at all and are completely indifferent towards everything. At that point just nothing matters anymore and you could just as well be dead. Even though I curse it sometimes and think it messes my life up, to me it feels that it's better to have really good times and really bad times and properly live through them instead of having just average times all along the way, at least it makes me feel, as you said, alive. And that doesn't apply to love only but to life in general.
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Post by Bartbär on Jan 31, 2011 0:16:30 GMT 2
I realize more and more as time goes on that friendship, at least something very meaningful and mutual, is an extremely rare occurrence. I've found that as time goes on too that I seem to lose my connection with people of the past. I think it's mostly because those people are still STUCK in the past. They don't seem to evolve or have any depth, they are just content with going along in their ways even though they don't even know where it is they're going or what it is they're looking for. A lot of my friends lately, well, a few acquaintances at least, have really bothered me. Messages I receive from them are filled with assumptions about me. They say things in a way as if I agree with them, or they put words in my mouth as if they know what I'm looking for, or they assume it's what I'm looking for. I hate that more than anything, because I hate assumptions (especially when I make them! And believe me I'm not exempt from mistakes) and I hate when people don't ask you. It seems as if they don't want to, they don't want to learn about who you truly are, beause they're afraid once they find out who you are they'll see just how much they disagree with you, and that happily idealized image will be destroyed. Instead though they should realize that it's GOOD to have people you disagree with, people who you share very little in common with as a friend, because those are QUALITIES of a person, not the full sum of who they truly are. One can hate everything that another person loves, yet they could completely find great love in one anothers friendship. But no one is willing to work for friendship... everyone just assumes that the people they talk with and have things in common with are their friends, yet looking at it from the outside that friendship just seems miserable.... Having said that it's quite easy to see why I've been so withdrawn from the forum lately. Ironically though this is the one place I do enjoy coming, and I enjoy talking with everyone here. Aside from all of us loving Korpiklaani we are all so very individual, we each have our quirks and our passions that don't always align with one another, but we still get along and develop good connections and friendships. And once again... don't even get me started on relationships.
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Post by Heer E. Tik on Feb 14, 2011 1:58:10 GMT 2
A lot of my friends lately, well, a few acquaintances at least, have really bothered me. There's a great deal of difference between a lot of friends vs. a few acquaintances being a bother. Which is it? And would you consider such people your friends or your acquaintances? I'm asking very direct questions for the sake of open discussion, as individual responses and people's approaches to relating to other people and what the notion of friendship means to them (which vary by region) has been a source of interest to me for a long time. Also curious to see if people can withstand this directness and back up their words, or if people simply say things without consequence. There is a saying we all have heard often, the one that goes that if one feels like the world has turned its back upon oneself, chances are it's the person that turned the back on the world. It's a good measuring stick to gouge whether it's some particular individuals around you that are off, or whether it's a gloomy winter mood that causes one to be pissed at almost everyone around. But if those people that you wrote about in your post above are really a source of bother and annoyance, why not bring this up to them directly and openly as a subject of conversation? Is it because of hesitation of their reaction or misunderstanding? But if you are silent to them how you feel about this, and are content to only mention this in outlets such as this one that would never reach the individuals in question, you are in a way taking a part in their misconception by not calling them on it, and letting them entrench themselves deeper in it. But if the instinctual silence is borne out of hesitation in the face of their potential mis-reaction, are you concerned for losing or damaging their friendship/acquaintanceship, even though they are, as you say, a source of bother to you and are unable to understand who you really are? In other words, do you say nothing to them in order to preserve that relationship even though it is an illusory one to begin with, and thus would continue interacting with them as though nothing has happened, not saying a word? But if so, you are deceiving these very people into thinking that you are their friend, when in fact there is a lot about them that bothers you and challenges your own sense of being, perhaps a subconscious whispering that there is an inherent incompatibility. And if you were their true friend, would you not rather resolve to work these issues out among yourselves, or at least within yourself (to change one's own perception is always easier than to alter others'), rather than allowing annoyance and passive aggressiveness to slowly strangle from within? People often say things they don't mean or vent about unprocessed thoughts that enter the mind prior to cross-examining them, and the series of questions above has been philosophically inspired as a (well-meant) challenge so you can see to what extent you stand behind the words in previous post.
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Post by Bartbär on Feb 14, 2011 5:22:31 GMT 2
It was at the time I wrote the above statement a mixed bag; mostly it was acquaintances, but in perhaps one other (or more, I don't remember as most has been cleared up now) with a friend. Keep in mind that my "a lot" is not like most others, considering that I have very few friends, and only a couple more acquaintances, a mere couple people giving me problems is "a lot" or "most" of my friends. This is something I should think about more clearly before typing, then again posting the above statement was partially done in a moment of frustration. I have talked directly with certain individuals about it, namely the friends, as those are the people whose relationships matter most to me and whose behavior affects me the most. Indeed one is only a part of the problem if they are concealing the matters from the people who they have the problem with rather than going directly to them. I admit that I'm not completely exempt from this, as much as I'd like to be. I've grown up in a house full of gossip, and as much as I hate to admit it some of that mindset does seep into the cracks. I try my best to recognize it when it does and take care of it, but such process is never 100% effective. I've noticed that, especially in the states, gossip is the only form of "communication" that people go about. Most shy away from direct communication, and to be honest that is the reason why I've gotten into rifts in the past with friendships. Sometimes I am good about letting people be who they are and do what they do, regardless of how I personally behave or believe in the same situation, because that's just a part of how people are. But in particular situations that relate to or influence me directly then I've got no problem jumping in to defend myself and who I am. In regards to one turning their back on the world, I admit to being a part of this category. And it's not just the winter mood (actually I find myself much more upbeat and problem free in the winter, now that spring is rearing its head in this mood has changed. Must be a case of reverse Seasonal Affective Disorder. ). That isn't to say though that I've completely turned my back and isolated myself from the world and the people within it. Generally when a problem does arise, I am quick to pin it first on myself before I pin it onto others. This process is wholly internal, and is never expressed openly until I've worked through it first to determine where the "error" lies. No sense in spreading out false feelings or information that has not been previously filtered. Sadly though I've been too lenient with my filter. I am very quick to filter people through when I note incompatibilities. Although I question sometimes the effectiveness of my filter. Past experiences grant me two possibilities: I am either very in tune with what I've experienced in the past, in which case I'm able to recognize negative manifestations early on and deal with them immediately, or second (and perhaps more likely) I'm scarred by past experiences and I'm more lenient with the filter as a means of not having to deal with them again. Although this has a positive side (the relationship truly isn't positively mutual and only would lead to wasted time and energy) it also has a negative side (possible meaningful relationships lost due to faulty perception). Although I feel I've been doing things more out of a correct perception, that is just my ego talking, and maybe it's just pride rearing in its ugly head without my knowledge. Yet I do not know how to understand in what way I'm doing things. I've always had a much more easy time analyzing the actions of others, but trying to turn the lens unto myself is a much greater task. Anyone that knows me, such as yourself, understands that there is something about me that perhaps isn't quite right. I'm not very good in dealing with friendships and relationships. Over the years I've become increasingly reserved, and as a result friendships have suffered. Slowly I've been losing the ability to communicate my thoughts and feelings effectively to my friends, and generally the more dear the friend the harder it is for me to communicate. Ironically though the very fact that I perceive myself this way only increases that perceived "reality". Sometimes I wonder why I haven't went to seek professional help yet. Perhaps because although I hate not communicating effectively, I"m also quite content in my isolated bubble.
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Post by kuusuru on Feb 14, 2011 11:03:21 GMT 2
Anyone that knows me, such as yourself, understands that there is something about me that perhaps isn't quite right. I don't believe this for a second, mate. "A little different", "Somewhat sensitive", "Keenly observant", "Intellectual", "Not a vacuous f'kwit"... these are completely right in my book, and anyone who thinks differently... definitely isn't quite right Perhaps because your issues are geographical, not psychological . You need patience and determination and a little bit of luck, Brother Bear, that's all.
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Post by Heer E. Tik on Feb 14, 2011 18:03:26 GMT 2
I've noticed that, especially in the states, gossip is the only form of "communication" that people go about. Most shy away from direct communication Sadly this is more widespread and universal, with hardly any place exempt from it. It seems to thrive in small, confined environments: villages, towns, work circles, among people who are not really friends but who are bound together by circumstance or shared goals or other conditions, and who socialize with each other to survive as social animals. Nothing bonds strangers more than having a common target to gossip about. If someone has a problem with anyone, they are likely to tell everyone but the problem person - sometimes out of fear of directness (not all have guts for open face off) and the other person's response; sometimes out of wanting to retain that person on one's network list and use him/her, whereas an open talk could create more distance making that person less accessible. Rumors are prone to arise as a means of justification for the gossip, and assumptions and pre-conceptions start flying about while the targeted person still has not a chance to even say a word in one's defense. This is all tangental, but a shame that there isn't a place in the world that is immune from this, the only thing one can do is distance oneself from such folks. In Iceland, February and March are called "the shit months" (thanks to Laxness) precisely for that, and are still a part of winter here. The winter itself is never a problem, it's exciting to see the weather change and snow arrive and holidays and darkness. In January this wears off, and as the light begins to increase so does the fatigue. The climb uphill is always hardest, and Nature is going uphill in these months towards a full spring. The days don't seem to get longer fast enough, and the warm thaw of late February and early March plays tricks on the mind and body. 21st century folk wisdom says that this is the transitional season when the body needs more vitamins than usual, because the deceptive warmth fools one into the summer mode thinking that one doesn't need to rest/eat as much to remain active, whereas the person is surprised to discover oneself drained of energy and lethargic and moody at the arrival of spring - but only because the body is deprived of vitamins and rest, and it affects the mind. Lack of concentration, frustration, etc. Winter appetite for food is vanishing along with the cold, but the body still needs to intake as much as in winter. This is when the real Seasonal Disorder happens, the lethargic pace of winter's retreat poses a danger to one's stable mood and energy level that has to be kept in mind... But the trick is that even if one is aware of this for oneself and keeps it in mind, other people can still piss you off because they're affected by this shit too and aren't aware of it for themselves ;D I wouldn't put it that way, and am a bit surprised to see that you do. After the philosophical immersion into 19th century German thought, do you still really believe in a single standard by which all individuals, including yourself, can be measured up and compared? While Sturm und Dräng was a reaction against this standard (a reaction, implying the acknowledged acceptance that such standard exists!), the strands of transcendental idealism sown by Novalis, spun by Schlegel, and woven by Schelling have branched out into uncharted territories accessible only through the creative genius that lies within oneself, and to each in his own way, or sometimes even not at all if one is a mere salón-frequenting social fop. You've no doubt encountered the "philistines" in German Romantic writings - not the Mediterranean stuff but the so-called uninitiated boorish mass crowd of the authors' contemporary times that doesn't give a shit for the arts. Shit never changes, if folks didn't feel out of place back then we wouldn't have had this literature and this strand of philosophy. When I was a teenager, these books were the only friends I had. They were proof that there wasn't anything wrong with me, because I found reflected in them what I already had within. I related more to the earlier stages of German Romanticism though, and while acquainting myself with the pessimists and skeptics of later 19th century, I found their disillusionment too heavy-handed, pessimistic, and skeptical to take uncritically at face value. It lessens in severity once you become more familiar with their source material to which they were reacting in their own turn, and that is precisely the creative genius/transcendental idealism strands of early wave of Romanticism. I have a feeling you jumped straight into Nietzsche and Schopenhauer without taking a longer detour through the matured, balanced and neo-classical phase of Goethe, the night magic wonders of Novalis, retro-medievalism of Tieck, Schiller's essays on æsthetics and creativity, and Eichendorff's prose. You left "Taugenichts" unfinished, and that my friend is a shame. It's no wonder the pessimism is dragging you down, not having a firmer rooting in the early stages of that movement as a backup support. Watch out, or before you know it you'll obtain a poodle and won't ever be able to write anything less than a door-stopper in response to every query, like Schopenhauer did And trust me, you don't want to go down in history as an owner of a poodle. Just ask Arthur how it feels. That's something to work on, to each in their own way. I doubt it comes naturally to anyone at all, or if it seems that it does, chances are that person is full of shit out on some mass-appeal agenda. If the suffered friendships were genuine and you regret it, then it's a great sign of a healthy self-awareness that is already half way to solution. In other cases, being more aware of yourself as you are may put you at odds with some around you who are unable to possess as much depth or perceptiveness and who thus put a pressure of conformity-or-exclusion. It need not be malicious or conscious, but that is the universal phantom voice that whispers in the dark of one's mind that one is somehow "not right" for one's inability to fit within a dictated environment one finds oneself in. It would be a great error to mistake such a limited dictated environment for the limits of the world, and to mistake a particular group of people one finds around oneself for humanity at large, with which one is at odds with. I agree with kuusuru that the issues seem more geographical rather than psychological. I found it to be so in my case. Small town/small school/narrow circle really limits the people one finds around oneself - both limits in number and in kinds of people they tend to be (some think the Shire is the whole world). I made exactly zero friends throughout high school, and after four years of college dorm life I have only three folks who deserve that title of closeness. Ironically, I still keep in touch with some of my high school teachers, with whom I had (and still have) more to talk about than with kids my age who filled their classrooms. Moral of the story: you're not "off" by any means, and only the particular environment you find yourself in may cause you to think you don't have any other options. Key thing: do not settle for the default you find yourself in. That was the fatal error of Madame Bovary. From observing some people I know, I've noticed several different ways that people cope with their individual misfit selves... 1. They relish their own misfit image, and it's quite marketable too. It ends up becoming an ego boost, and they start going an extra mile to set themselves apart and take pride in their differentness. For example: fantasy LotR freaks who are not able to tell their idealized notions apart from reality, dressing in particular way to set oneself apart or to align oneself with particular (counter)movement or group, etc. Usually, at the bottom of all this, lies a well camouflaged snobbery, elitism, and shallowness. And betrays a low self esteem. If someone was comfortable with their own self, would they go the extra mile to set themselves apart so much? 2. They develop a hardened outside mask of cynicism and/or misanthropy and/or sarcasm directed at outside world that they end up despising for its shallowness and conceit. They wear it so much and so often that they forget the look and feel of their own face, and find themselves unable to take it off as it has grown into the skin. The bitterness begins to fester, and leads to much venom and black bile that, if it doesn't spill out destructively, strangles from within. 3. They are too sincere, genuine, and well-intentioned to develop any kind of outside mask, as it reeks of the same conceit that they dislike in the world at large. Unprotected sincerity, however, makes them extremely vulnerable. They find themselves reacting to the outside shocks, as opposed to navigating them proactively. In need of a source of strength and support against these shocks, they see compromise with outside world as a fatal submission to its power and entrench themselves deeper in their subjectivism, blind to the fact that it is their unrestrained creative inner potential that is the catalyst of their own isolation and alienation. They cannot extinguish it, for it gives them life even as it drains them of it. These stories tend not to end well. ("Werther"; Heinrich von Kleist; someone I used to know, so take my word for it) 4. Those who, instead of basking in their outsider status and instead of falling in any of the above extremes, simply go forward one step at a time and do the best they can to stay themselves while maintaining friendships and being on good terms with the world. I catch myself thinking that I'm very much a people person - as long as I don't have to interact with crowds all the time. I'll never understand the American idea of a casual friendship (hanging out for fun, while staying out of each other's life in day to day matters), and I do not enjoy socializing, small talk, or chatter. However, it is far from likely that I would ever have a deep and meaningfully thorough discussion with someone I had just met, and sometimes social formalities are called for in order to initiate and establish a lasting contact that may or may not prove fruitful. It is extremely draining for me to put myself into a social mood, because I do not perceive gradients on a friendship continuum, so to say - I cannot peg people into multiple slots of varying definers, to me it is all or nothing, loyalty or apathy. Well of course I can with effort, but it's not easy. A sense of humor though goes a long way. One shouldn't take oneself too seriously, and if you look at a social situation with irony, it's easier to cope (plus you'll find yourself a center of attention with that Wilde-esque wit that is born of such irony ) It is disconcerting to be reminded once in a while that one sometimes grows out of some friendships, or that people whom one considers friends have decided to move off in a direction they don't want one to follow, and end up breaking contact despite one being resolved to maintain that connection. Sadly it happens. But when it's done to you, it's comforting to know that you haven't been the cause of it, and that's just the way the other person evolved and moved off - nothing you could do about it, so good riddance. If you see some trouble communicating with those who matter to you, don't leave this unattended. They may not have any way of knowing how you feel about them if you do not tell them. They may misconstrue your silence or your reticence unless you let them know its cause. Passivity is not a good thing in maintaining connections, and may sometimes create a rift where none should be simply out of miscommunication and misinterpretation of intent. I think openness goes a long way. We tend to leave the more direct and straightforward things out of conversations because we think they are assumed, and it results in conversations being less direct and less straightforward. The more direct something is, the harder it is to assume it, paradoxically, it's something one has to be told, made aware of, even if it's under one's nose. A human mind is a wonder machine capable of every single interpretation under the sun except for the most obvious one. Often connections are lost simply because one never told the other what this connection has meant to oneself, and other had no way of knowing. Had he known, he would have given the former benefit of doubt. Also the more direct you are in communication, the less you blame yourself if something goes awry. When someone knows how things stand with you, it may be their own misgivings that cause it. Communication is always good. Don't wait for the other to take the active role, because that other may be waiting for you to do exactly the same, and then neither would get anywhere, and a friendship may dry up. We love to be reached out towards, seeing that someone cares and is attentive. But everyone can't always be a recipient, friendship is a two way cycle whose nourishment is involvement and investment. In a long term mood of misanthropy, even just saying this to friends lets them know what to expect and what not to expect from you in this time. Like, nothing personal guys, but I need a lot of alone time. If they are real friends, they would let you have your space and offer support. If they're casual hangout friends, they may get pissed that you're depriving them of hangout fun by not being there with them, but people's reaction will reveal their own character and make it easier to see what they're made of. Shrinks and the-rapists are full of $hit. A whole industry built upon people's reluctance to work out their own simple bumps in life and instead wanting to rely on medicine or expert analyses. As my countryside aunt used to say: "What depression? Go hand-wash the laundry on the laundry board, that will take it right out of ya!" A cure, mind, with several thousands' years of track record. Take my word that therapists are full of shit though. My college had free on-campus counseling . Supposed to be one of the best psych help centers in the country - and on a campus with skyrocketing suicide rates. My first winter in college I decided it's no harm in checking it out since it's free and all, so I did. What a waste. One more thought: of the dozens people in my social college circle when I was 21, I still keep in touch with only two of them. Everyone builds and shapes one's life in one's own way, and people move on, move apart, or move away. School and college are those kinds of networks where people are temporarily bound by shared experiences that shield them from their differences, but as life moves on, that's when you see who's still on your wavelength. Another case in point: none of my friends that I have made in those networks actually share my interests. But that's what makes those connections so interesting and perpetually exciting - we keep discovering more through one another what we may never have discovered on one's own, and thus the interests and passions are expanding, not stagnating in one static sameness. When all is said and done, I still have 43, 322 characters remaining in this post's limit. I won't write anything nearly as big from now on, as my time is short. Count all the literary references made in this post and get a prize :Ð
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Post by Bartbär on Feb 14, 2011 21:16:44 GMT 2
Ooops, I forgot to add the smiley face after the "professional help" comment. I too think it is quite bullshit. Sure, under extreme circumstances or particular occasions when the counselor lines up and fits perfectly with their patient it can have its uses, but overall and on average it's nothing but a bunch of bullshit. Some of my sisters have went to counselors actually, and most of the time they made things WORSE, usually by putting blame on our parents which in turn created a rift in their psyche in which all bad experiences could falsely be traced back to the parents. Creating in many senses that ungrateful dependency that they continue to show to our parents. But that is another story. I actually was just having a talk about this with who is perhaps one of my only local friends last night. We were talking about the absurdity of psychological explanations for things, and worse off the increased prescription of "anxiety" and "depression" medicine. On both our sides we've noticed a great deal of our acquaintances or the like falling into the trap of prescription medicine. Oddly enough both of our sisters have been prescribed the same anxiety medicine (Xanax), despite it's addictive qualities, their addictive behaviors, and only a 15 minute visit to the doctors. It's almost as if no one has a pair of balls left in this society: if you can't handle work, school, family, etc. don't worry about it and don't overcome it, just take a pill that will make it all seem to go away when in reality it just continues to fester. Then one is faced with continued problems of extreme anxiety when ones prescription has run low. Depression, anxiety, stress, etc. These things are all a part of life, and so too are countless other problems. It is the overcoming them on ones own that has value and enlightenment, not the mere short-cut (which only leads one on to a long route leading them right back to square one). In terms of gossip: sadly I have not been very far from where I've lived my entire life, so I've only been able to apply this mindset to what I've experienced. It is sad that it exists nearly everywhere, but I suppose this isn't much of a surprise. Even in cities it is becoming increasingly easy to gossip about one another, especially with tools such as facebook (which I've increasingly grown tired of because of said gossip) in which mutual "friends" can see something on facebook which they can then gossip about later in person behind the other "friends" back. Gossip has been a part of my family for years, and as much as I love my family it has done it's damage to me. It is almost impossible now to have a conversation with my Mother without it reverting to some gossip related around school, or about whatever member of the family isn't in the room at the time. Rather than tell the current daughter/sibling that this or that family member is having problems with what they have wrong with them, they go to everyone ELSE in the family. You would be surprised how many times I hear same damn problem come up 100 times before it FINALLY gets expressed to the individual. Then by that time the damage has already been done, and a piece of the relationship is fractured because of it. Rather than confront the problem when it arises, they let it continue, thus setting a precedent that such action is acceptable, in which case once the action is addressed it is no longer able to be prevented. I suppose that would explain how I've felt the past week, and the reason why I've been oddly falling asleep WAY early (21:00 or 22:00) on the weekends and generally feeling a sense of malaise. Although today I've been coming to peace with the coming spring. It is so odd how one can FEEL when the seasons are changing, and how dramatic the change occurs: one day is it -12 degrees Fahrenheit out with an even colder wind-chill, and the next day the sun is out, temperatures are dramatically increased, and one can feel and smell the spring air as they can walk outside without a coat or sweater for the first time. That feeling relaxed me today, a feeling that is 10 times more relaxing than usual when one lives in a house with no heat. Perhaps my biggest problem is that I label myself not in the way that I perceive myself, but in the way that it seems others do, or at least have perceived me previously. I am content with my inwardness and my isolation, and thankfully my real friends understand this. They know that when they dont' hear from me it is not because I am upset with them, but simply that I am on yet another one of my hibernations. You express it perfectly though when smaller groups of acquaintances are aggravated by it: even if you've expressed to them your nature of being introverted and only out of the cave every once in a while, they are quick to cast you aside: if they can't experience your jokes or presence every few days than they don't wish to worry about it at all. Luckily though I've had the fortune of even such groups being understandable, which means such people have potential of being truly wonderful lifelong (or at least somewhat lifelong) friends. Growing up as a kid Nietzsche was indeed the first writer I got into, and to this day he is still my favorite because through him I found all of my passion: German language, Philosophy, Psychology, etc. as well as an increase in the passions I already had (Music). When I was a teenager reading Nietzsche for the first time I always felt connected to him: the Schopenhauer inspired pessimism of his early writings was a helpful tool in guiding me through very hard times. As I've matured I've continued to feel related to Nietzsche: although he loved Schopenhauer early on (as I do now) he later went on to deny this pessimism, and develop the Existential ideas of the secular over-man. Pessimism fits my mind-set as of late, and it has fit my mind-set for some years, but I know and recognize that down the line this may not continue to be the case. I will always find some truth in Pessimism, but I will never find all truth there. Sadly my limits in German have prohibited my progress on the Early German literature front: such works are not easy to find in English, let alone for a bargain price and of reputable qualiety. I've been struggling through Taugenichts, I understand the context but not the content, and as of late I've only been slowly translating the first chapter (a chapter which I've listened to and read through a good 15 times in the past couple weeks). Perhaps once I am off to Uni and required to read through these texts and no longer taking General Ed to fully immerse myself in language will I be able to understand and appreciate their contents. That is why I have always yearned for travel: being stuck in the same place everyday for my entire life has really harmed my way of thinking. As much as I am independent in my thoughts I still am in part a product of my environment. It is impossible to escape the mind-sets and subliminal influences that living in any given area entails. Hopefully going off to Uni will help with that, although the town there is actually smaller, and I've never been very attracted to the types of people who attend. At least it is a start. Heck, it's only taken me 21 years (22 by the time I get there) to move 45 minutes away, so maybe when I'm 2,567 years old I will finally be on my way to Europe. Alas I can not possibly comment on all I'd wish to now. But then again I don't think I ever could with even a lifetimes worth of time. But that is the beauty of such communication: it inspires the ideas which remain, from there it is on to the individual to utilize them and express them in the very actions which are supposed to be louder than words. Sadly though this means I'll also not be able to participate in the literary reference game. Not yet anyway.
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Post by Heer E. Tik on Mar 8, 2011 21:09:42 GMT 2
This thread has yielded many interesting and provocative discussions about the subject-topics from all kinds of perspectives, and now I have an open question for everyone reading this: How do you define "friendship"? What does this word mean to you personally, or what does the notion of a "friend" (either being one or having one) mean to you? I think that depending on our different cultures, heritages, personal histories etc, each answer would be unique and individual - yet having lived in several countries and having observed different ways of local behaviors, maybe the notion of "friendship" is defined through one's culture more than other factors... maybe also the meaning changes based on one's age? Since we have so many countries represented in this forum, it would be very interesting to read how different people understand this concept that is so universal yet so multifaceted in its myriad of meanings (In a way, I sort of gave my own definition of it in my above ultra-long post...)
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Post by kuusuru on Mar 16, 2011 21:48:04 GMT 2
This thread has yielded many interesting and provocative discussions about the subject-topics from all kinds of perspectives, and now I have an open question for everyone reading this: How do you define "friendship"? Hmm... no takers yet? I'll bite ;D I think most people conflate acquaintances with friends. I used to have a large number of acquaintances, now I have a small circle of friends, and I'm much happier for it . An acquaintance is someone with whom you'd talk in an elevator, a friend is someone to whom you'd give your last dollar.
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Post by Bartbär on Mar 17, 2011 2:26:20 GMT 2
I'd have to agree with Kuusuru. Life yields many acquaintances, but very few friends. And it is much better to have a few friends than an army of acquaintances.
The difference is that the former are the type of people you spend time with at school, on the bus, etc. to help the day go by. The latter are those with whom you go "out of your way" to spend time with as an integral part of your day. One can be friendLY to strangers and even friendly to people they talk with everyday, but developing friendship takes another level.
To me a friend is someone with whom you are able to truly discuss things with. Someone who you can walk with on the battlefield of life without worrying about them leaving you behind (or vice versa) after your own battles with each other. Someone who you can agree with and disagree with without pride and egos getting in the way. Someone who at the end of the day you feel refreshed to have talked with regardless of what you talked about, whether it be some deep philosophical discussion or just an array of nonsensical jokes.
A friend doesn't even need to be someone you spend every waking moment with. Most of my friends, such as those I've made here, are ones I don't often get to talk to but whom I hold very deep in my heart. Friendship doesn't require a bombardment of communication, just a bombardment of mutual understanding and respect.
To me too friendship is a lot like a relationship: you know you've got a good partner when it's someone who you can just sit down with, doing absolutely nothing, and still walk away happy. Someone who you need not be active with to enjoy their "company" but in whose company is the enjoyment. To me if you need to go out and do something with someone all the time, than it's not them that you are connected with but the activity. Although that doesn't mean friends can't go out all the time and still hold a deep connection with one another.
There are multiple levels of relationships, but friendship is something that takes on the highest form. Friends are those people with whom you can look at as if they were your most beloved family member, or even your most beloved self, with whose preservation you hold in highest regard; with whose preservation you hold higher than your own.
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