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Post by teuton on Jun 13, 2006 22:41:18 GMT 2
Just a random fact:
In Germany people complain that people and the state don't have money. But I changed my mind since I have been to Berlin.
The area round the Reichtstag is something which reinforced my patriotic thoughts, it is simply beatiful! Germans managed to build it all in such a beatiful way that I could not leave the top of the Reichstag where I was perceiving all that surrounded me. And I thought to myself: "You are German. And you are Germany". This happening striked me, so that I am more proud of my country than ever before. And I think all of you won't accuse me of being a Nazi simply for being a proud German, which already happened several times to me.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Jun 13, 2006 22:48:21 GMT 2
I have no pride or faith in my country. The country is going downhill so soon you will see my location as a different country with any luck.
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Post by A Kat Person on Jun 16, 2006 11:37:06 GMT 2
olli, I have no pride or faith in my country either. It's in a total nose dive. In fact, I really want to get out of here before the religious fundamentalists take over. teuton, there's nothing wrong with having pride in your country! It's quite silly, IMHO, to label someone a 'nazi' just for loving one's country. That word is thrown around way too often; the real meaning is being drained out of it. People call each other nazis here at the drop of a hat. I've never been in favor of fervent nationalism - because I think that is very divisive, in a time when we should all be coming together as fellow human beings. But a healthy pride in one's land is great, something I wish I could have sometimes... I am Russian but grew up in the U.S.... I love the Russian culture but feel sort of outside of it at the same time, because I didn't really grow up in it... for the U.S. I feel only emptiness, I don't feel that it has the depth of history and culture that other, older countries have... although I must say that I do have a special weird fondness for NYC, it is really like a separate place outside of the U.S., I don't feel like an American but I do feel like a New Yorker...!
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Post by twilightheart on Jun 17, 2006 12:42:51 GMT 2
Just a random fact: In Germany people complain that people and the state don't have money. The "funny" thing is, whereever I´ve been in the world, there`s no richer place (maybe Switzerland, harr), but in every country I´ve been, the normal people have not much money and have to see, how they get along from month to month (of course there are exeptions, but I don`t know any of them). So leaving Germany, because it has no money, is ridiculous. It will be the same in every other country. Maybe it´s just that the Germans are the ones who complain loudest about having no money. (While other countries/ people just make the best out of their situation...)
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Post by twilightheart on Jun 17, 2006 12:55:24 GMT 2
I also know that many Germans really didn't know about this during the war. Every time i see images of what happened in the destruction camps (vernichtungs anlage) i have the feeling i have to run and cry. You don´t have to think that during WWII only Nazis and "not-knowing-of-anything" people lived in Germany. I always wonder why people think so. First of all, the jews (and other minorities) lived AMONG the Germans. So it´s a large amount of German families as well, who lost their families (losing their brothers not only in war, but also in the concentration camps as they were Jew, gay, or whatever). It´s not that the Germans just occupied other countries, it´s also that they killed large amounts of their own people. So you don´t have to think that only other countries are angry against the German past, it´s also that many Germans are angry against the Nazis. Because people always (still today) think they were only Nazis in Germany. But there also were a lot of people fighting against all that. People (normal German people) risking their lives all the time to fight against the Nazi ruling. That means, a lot of people DID know, what`s going on, doing their best to fight against it (which isn`t easy when getting erased as soon as you say just ONE word against the gouvernment). I wonder if in history lessons in other countries the teachers just leave that fact away? And why? To create the perfect enemy-country? The truth is that many of our German grandfathers fighted hard to save other people`s lives, and many died for that. (P.S. That "you" in the text doesn`t mean one specific person of course, but everyone who reads it. It´s meant in the sense of "you=people".)
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flame
Eagle
flame is dancing in the night,the shadows are really alive,the clan of the forest is singing with me
Posts: 117
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Post by flame on Jun 20, 2006 9:54:05 GMT 2
Just a random fact: In Germany people complain that people and the state don't have money. But I changed my mind since I have been to Berlin. The area round the Reichtstag is something which reinforced my patriotic thoughts, it is simply beatiful! Germans managed to build it all in such a beatiful way that I could not leave the top of the Reichstag where I was perceiving all that surrounded me. And I thought to myself: "You are German. And you are Germany". This happening striked me, so that I am more proud of my country than ever before. And I think all of you won't accuse me of being a Nazi simply for being a proud German, which already happened several times to me. I Was in Berlin , too, and I remember the state in the late 80´s as well. I loved the part of the Town which is called Krezberg with its anarchic History. But it is much more dirty there and I went to the Alexanderplatz near the Reichstag. I like the RT, too , but the Alex and the buildings there are, for me, megalomaniac stuff which shows the muscles of capitalism and it has no flair at all there. But Culture, esp. music is big in this city, and it is worth to see the whole capital. I think many of the citizens are a bit arrogant, but not all. C U Flame
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flame
Eagle
flame is dancing in the night,the shadows are really alive,the clan of the forest is singing with me
Posts: 117
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Post by flame on Jun 20, 2006 9:59:04 GMT 2
I also know that many Germans really didn't know about this during the war. Every time i see images of what happened in the destruction camps (vernichtungs anlage) i have the feeling i have to run and cry. You don´t have to think that during WWII only Nazis and "not-knowing-of-anything" people lived in Germany. I always wonder why people think so. First of all, the jews (and other minorities) lived AMONG the Germans. So it´s a large amount of German families as well, who lost their families (losing their brothers not only in war, but also in the concentration camps as they were Jew, gay, or whatever). It´s not that the Germans just occupied other countries, it´s also that they killed large amounts of their own people. So you don´t have to think that only other countries are angry against the German past, it´s also that many Germans are angry against the Nazis. Because people always (still today) think they were only Nazis in Germany. But there also were a lot of people fighting against all that. People (normal German people) risking their lives all the time to fight against the Nazi ruling. That means, a lot of people DID know, what`s going on, doing their best to fight against it (which isn`t easy when getting erased as soon as you say just ONE word against the gouvernment). I wonder if in history lessons in other countries the teachers just leave that fact away? And why? To create the perfect enemy-country? The truth is that many of our German grandfathers fighted hard to save other people`s lives, and many died for that. (P.S. That "you" in the text doesn`t mean one specific person of course, but everyone who reads it. It´s meant in the sense of "you=people".) Most of the people who know the full truth of their own WW2 History are now old, and so they come to my Hospital where I work. They often tell me Storys. One of them told me that he lived in a bigger City, in Hannover. The citizens there knew much more than they say today, maybe to protect their innocence , dont know. But in Hannover they were very cruel. They said to the governor, he must stop the deportations in nighttime, because the cries and screams from the mostly Jewish people at the train line were much too loud and disturbes their sleep ! I believe that this story of the old man is true and it shows how brutal some part of Germany was really.
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Post by twilightheart on Jun 20, 2006 22:41:01 GMT 2
Most of the people who know the full truth of their own WW2 History are now old, and so they come to my Hospital where I work. They often tell me Storys. One of them told me that he lived in a bigger City, in Hannover. The citizens there knew much more than they say today, maybe to protect their innocence , dont know. But in Hannover they were very cruel. They said to the governor, he must stop the deportations in nighttime, because the cries and screams from the mostly Jewish people at the train line were much too loud and disturbes their sleep ! I believe that this story of the old man is true and it shows how brutal some part of Germany was really. A friend of our acquaintances who survived the concentration camp told, that the transports to the camps were almost the more cruel part in comparison to the stay in the camp. Not just because they could guess it´s their doom. But also because those transports sometimes lasted several days, and they did NOT stop to let the people do their daily needs. So the people after 2 or 3 days would stand there in the wagons with the shit and piss running down their legs, and there`s nothing they could do. And the smell was terrible. Some people did shit in the corners, but especially young girls were just ashamed to sit down there in front of their parents or strangers , so they would just let it run down their legs. And that guy said, this is one of the things that he will never forget, how those young pretty girls stand there with all the shit on their legs being totally ashamed, because it was such a strange and controversy thing to look at. It´s just all a big shame. I was some months ago also recording (with my little interviews-recorder) the whole life story of my grandmother, because I don`t want it to get lost, as she`s the last one from this part of the family who can tell. It´s unimaginable for people like us what this generation has been through (on either side), even when being just normal people staying at home during the war; how they tried to survive every day and keep humanity alive even in those times. Our generation complains about such stupid things, but this is all trivia against what this older generation has been through.
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Post by A Kat Person on Jun 24, 2006 7:57:00 GMT 2
Twilight, that bit about the transports to the camps sounds so horrible... I know that my grandfather, who fought with the Russians, was at some point on a train to a camp, but had escaped and become a partisan, and that is all I know, and all any of my family knows, because he has always kept all the details to himself, in fact I don't think he's every talked about it with anyone. But he must have seen some horrifying stuff because he is not right in the head So you don´t have to think that only other countries are angry against the German past, it´s also that many Germans are angry against the Nazis. Because people always (still today) think they were only Nazis in Germany. But there also were a lot of people fighting against all that. People (normal German people) risking their lives all the time to fight against the Nazi ruling. That means, a lot of people DID know, what`s going on, doing their best to fight against it (which isn`t easy when getting erased as soon as you say just ONE word against the gouvernment). I wonder if in history lessons in other countries the teachers just leave that fact away? And why? To create the perfect enemy-country? The truth is that many of our German grandfathers fighted hard to save other people`s lives, and many died for that. You are right, that never occurred to me, and I guess the common assumption is indeed that all Germans at the time were nazis... I don't know about how history is taught in other countries, but yes, in the U.S. I would say that indeed, they do not teach about the Germans who were fighting against nazis. I don't think that this is to create a "perfect enemy-country" necessarily, since Germany has long since ceased being an enemy, and the U.S. government has created other "perfect enemy-countries" since then, including the Soviet Union, and now I guess it's Iraq-Iran-North Korea! However, here is why I think they teach it that way - it is to give the impression of American heroics against "the evil nazis"; my impression was, when they taught about World War II when I was in school, any efforts to win the war and beat the nazis by anyone else (be it Russians, or the English, let alone other Germans) were completely discounted or not mentioned at all. Basically, to paraphrase it bluntly, they teach that Europe was being taken over by Nazis until America came to save them, and then by dropping bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they saved the world from the evil Japanese (which was, of course, the other "perfect enemy-country" at the time). Now, of course, I (and many other Americans) perfectly realize that this is completely America-slanted propaganda, but unfortunately many other Americans, the so-called "patriotic" ones, believe this word for word and this is why they complain when European countries are against American foreign policy... a popular comment is "They'd all be speaking German if it weren't for us!"
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Jun 27, 2006 10:32:26 GMT 2
in the UK, the government has just made a new law called "Sarah's law" where pedophiles are made more aware and people would be more vigilante. But I was reading the paper and there was a 2 page spread of two old men, just released from prison for sex attacks on little girls and boys, and they was sitting on the bench recording little children walking by. And what made me even sicker was their expressions on their face as they were walking by and that the reporters who was investigating this matter was the only people keeping an eye on the attackers and no one else.
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Post by teuton on Jun 28, 2006 20:04:54 GMT 2
Concerning WW2 I'd like to add my personal opinion:
Being patriotist is no crime. So I maintain a huge distance to Nazis.
I am not responsible for the crime my ancestors did or were forced to do. If my grand-grandfather was a killer, why should I take responsability for this. I see no reason for me justifying the things that happened in these times. I am quite sensible concerningn this issue because due to some happenings in the past I don't let myself being made a defender of WW2 unvoluntarily.
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uxxa
Wolfcub
Posts: 12
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Post by uxxa on Jul 2, 2006 0:31:28 GMT 2
I have no pride or faith in my country. The country is going downhill so soon you will see my location as a different country with any luck. If I were you, I wuold be proud, living in UK because of your national football team and spirit.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Jul 2, 2006 19:10:13 GMT 2
My team? hehe they did not deserve to be in the quarter finals. but i would like to live in Finland or Denmark or even Russia. there are so many flaws here in the UK and I admit I tend to follow the media because they make the situations about the Governments seem worse. I admit that but the media are very overpowering. the country is being over ran with criminals who are let loose and people in yob groups. last night at 11.30 there were these 2 "chav" youths walking up the road shouting there heads off and swearing and threatening people and disturbing the area. i live in the countryside but if you went to a city or a bigger population area than mine, you will find a huge group of them like that who break inot shops and creating a name for the country because the UK are full of them.
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Post by Olli The Drunk Bear on Jul 4, 2006 13:09:49 GMT 2
I have just found out that Sean Bean is acting in this film called The Outlaw, which is being filmed in a city 7 miles away from me. And he went to the welding company where my uncle works and Mr.Bean welded his name and some other stuff so he can put it on ebay and auction it off. So now he is going give what ever moeny he gets to Lydny Hospital to save it. I'm not sure if you guys remember me saying about the hospitals closing down, but I did mention it above on this page I do beleive.
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MoonDancer
Clansman
"Voices are calling from somewhere below"
Posts: 384
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Post by MoonDancer on Jul 21, 2006 23:28:47 GMT 2
What do you think of the crisis in Lebanon?
I think it is for diverting people's attention from the unsuccessful American wars on the Near East. Poor A. Sharon, this war is really against his intentions. Anyway, there's an economical slow-down all over in the wetern world, especially in the USA, and economical crisise are usually solved by wars - as far as my memories from history lessons are good.
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