Xetee
Clansman
Jarto d'aguant?...
Posts: 218
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Post by Xetee on May 23, 2007 2:20:59 GMT 2
it's my attempt (but i'm not finnish):
Kaksisataakuusikymmentäviisituhatta. It's right or wrong? I don't know if I should put 'tuhat' instead of 'tuhatta', because...it is in partitive, isn't it? You say: 265 thousands, so it's more than a thousand.
Correct please. I learn 'cause of my mistakes.
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Post by HerraHirwi on May 23, 2007 4:07:33 GMT 2
it's my attempt (but i'm not finnish): Kaksisataakuusikymmentäviisituhatta. It's right or wrong? I don't know if I should put 'tuhat' instead of 'tuhatta', because...it is in partitive, isn't it? You say: 265 thousands, so it's more than a thousand. Perfectly right!
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elizabeth
Wolfcub
so close to heaven....
Posts: 60
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Post by elizabeth on May 23, 2007 13:28:08 GMT 2
SO I was quite close to unravelling of a mystery:D Thank you Virva and Pantera
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Post by Humppaporo on Sept 16, 2007 22:47:19 GMT 2
Can someone please tell me the difference in use between jäädä and pysyä?
Our teacher says that there is a difference, but she only knows it intuitive, she cannot tell us why she uses one or the other verb.
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Post by frostheim on Sept 17, 2007 11:32:32 GMT 2
Jäädä: > To "stay" for a longer while or permanently (out of something that has already been going on); to end up in leaving/staying behind from the other(s); to go somewhere first and then stay there for eg. a longer while than the others. Usually refers to something that is already going on or about to be done, but then one decides to stay eg. out of it or make something to stay after something has proceeded first/earlier.
Examples: > Jään nyt tänne. = I'm now staying here (in the meaning that eg. I've now come this far and I'm not going to move further for a while or at all). > Kyllä minä saan hänet/sen jäämään tänne. = I'll surely make him/her/it stay here (and not to move anywhere/elsewhere from here). > Jääkö tuo nyt tänne? = Is that (thing, whatever) going to stay here (and eg. not to come/move along with us any further)? > Jäätkö nyt tosissasi tuolle kannalle? = Are you really going to stay on your stand (after all this quarrel and struggle and not going to change it anymore/for now)?
Pysyä: > To stay somewhere (possibly already from the beginning) and not (willing/able/etc.) to move on or change place/stand/etc.; usually has some more permanent meaning/connection in it; to make something to be on its state/place/attatched to something or somewhere, even without moving somewhere else earlier; to make up ones mind and not change it in spite of the others/circumstances/etc. Refers on staying somewhere or keeping up something already from the beginning and without any need for something or somebody to move/change/etc. after that.
Examples: > Pysyn nyt täällä. = I'll now stay here (and not going to move although the others possibly are, I don't possibly even care, haha!). > Saan sen kyllä pysymään. = I think I can surely make it hold / be attached (although someone might be suspicious of my thoughts about what I'm going to do). > Pysyykö tuo pystyssä? = Is that (thing, whatever) going to hold up (possible tone in the background: are you sure that this works)? > Pysyn nyt tällä kannalla enkä mieltäni muuta. = I'll now keep my stand (as I've done so already for a long time) and I'm not going to change my mind (no matter what the others would try on me).
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Post by Humppaporo on Sept 17, 2007 12:15:07 GMT 2
@mr Kuuraparta, kiitoksia näistä tiedoista! It always makes so happy when something is so clearly and outstanding explained like this! These nuances could never be found when you are not a native speaker and i guess that it is not easy even for native speakers to define the difference.
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Post by frostheim on Sept 17, 2007 12:39:27 GMT 2
@mr Kuuraparta, kiitoksia näistä tiedoista! It always makes so happy when something is so clearly and outstanding explained like this! These nuances could never be found when you are not a native speaker and i guess that it is not easy even for native speakers to define the difference. Hehe, you're welcome and thanks too! Actually it's mostly one of my "duties" & tasks along with these studies to be able to find and explain this kind of issues and answer to the questions alike, as we're here studying our mother tongue further as well together with the related languages. And to correct this a bit more btw.: - - but she only knows it intuitive, she cannot tell us why she uses one or the other verb. To be precise, it's certainly not intuitive, but namely contextual, as it can directly be seen from the examples I gave there earlier; one has to be aware of the situation & surroundings and to observe the circumstances before one can interact with the outworld. "Tänne jään ja täällä pysyn." ;D
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Post by Humppaporo on Sept 30, 2007 23:42:32 GMT 2
I have some questions again.
In our book is that with a deverbal noun (ending –minen) always goes with partitive.
But why then: (don’t take notice of the contents of these sentences, these are just some examples we cooked up)
Opiskeleminen on jalo teko while: Kysymysksien vastaminen on hyvää opetusta
and another question:
can someone explain the difference between: kertomus, tarina and juttu? Or can you just mix them up?
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Post by frostheim on Oct 1, 2007 8:46:44 GMT 2
Opiskeleminen on jalo tekowhile: Kysymysksien vastaminen on hyvää opetusta Jalo teko icludes an adjective (jalo: noble) + substantive (teko: act), thus in this kind of situation the clause doesn't have to be in partitive, but in nominative as it is there now. Choosing the case also depends on what one wants to express: One can say eg. Opiskeleminen on jaloa puuhaa, which means that "Stydying is noble activity/acting/doing", which can thus refer to that very acting just in general and probably not bound to any direct context, but when it's jalo teko, then one refers to an act as more collectively/more exactly and the connection to the situation/context may be more significant/accurate as well. Some examples more: Kanteleen soittaminen on hauska harrastus.> Playing the kantele is a convenient hobby (to have [for someone]; more exact). Kanteleen soittaminen on hauskaa.> Playing the kantele is fun/convenient (more in general; no matter who are involved in the situation for real etc.). can someone explain the difference between: kertomus, tarina and juttu? Or can you just mix them up? Kertomus and tarina both stands for "story, tale, history, anecdote", no particular semantic differences at least in my opinion. Kertomus is led from the word kertoa ("to tell"; but also "to multiply" in mathematics), which is led from kerta ("time, occasion, turn, a while"), and the word is probably an old Baltic loan word, where as tarina is loaned from Russian "stariná" that refers to the old times and poems and stories about those times. The verb tarinoida means simply "to tell a story/stories". Juttu is a bit more complicated then; it can stand for "chat", "story", "occasion", "thing/subject" and also "legal matter"; a related verb is jutella "to have a chat/talk", "to chatter", "to tell". In relation to kertomus and tarina, usually juttu is used for a smaller story etc., whereas kertomus or tarina generally refers to some bigger/longer tale or history.
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Post by Humppaporo on Oct 1, 2007 10:43:21 GMT 2
And thank you so much again!
Sometimes totally ununderstandable things become very clear, always a good thing. The point is that i sometimes just look at the wrong aspects.
This morning i was writing a piece for class. And then i had another thing. I wanted to write that someone (a politician) was so devoted and so determined to make things better for his country that i could not do otherwise than to admire him (i had to admire him).
We learned that f.i. 'minua naurattaa' means: i have to laugh (whether i like it or not), pelottaa, huvittaa etc.
so i was looking for such a form of ihailla, but could not find it. Can you make such forms yourself? Or did i choose the wrong word to begin with?
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Post by frostheim on Oct 1, 2007 12:09:46 GMT 2
so i was looking for such a form of ihailla, but could not find it. Can you make such forms yourself? Or did i choose the wrong word to begin with? The direct form would be minua ihailuttaa, but at least I've never seen such anywhere; the word isn't wrong at all, namely constructed the right way and logically, but such expression isn't really used anywhere and that's why it can't be found in any dictionaries or other sources, although this lead element of -ttaa/-ää is productive and naturally in use in nowadays Finnish. However, ihailu ("admiration") is a very common word. Then again you could say hän ihastuttaa minua in the meaning that "he/she makes me to admire him/her" or more like "he/she charms/fascinates me", but that's a bit different thing though, as ihastua/olla ihastunut generally stands for deeper admiration and even falling in love. And ihannoida can mean wheter to "adore/find something/someone adorable" or "to idealize", thus it goes quite far then, although the root in ihailla, ihana etc. is of the same origin.
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Post by Humppaporo on Oct 3, 2007 15:16:11 GMT 2
@pekka: kiitos vastauksestasi! My teacher Lili asked me to tell you that your answer about the deverbal nouns is really valuable to her. She already used it to explain this subject to two classes, and told us that she will continue the discussion and make more examples next week. Both my language teachers said a few times in the past already: maybe you can ask Pekka, and they call you invaluable (which you are of course, but not just for language answers ) anyway, great that there is someone who can explain so many things so clearly *shall we move this topic to the 'serious section' ?
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Post by frostheim on Oct 4, 2007 13:36:38 GMT 2
My teacher Lili asked me to tell you that your answer about the deverbal nouns is really valuable to her. She already used it to explain this subject to two classes, and told us that she will continue the discussion and make more examples next week. Ah, I'm truly grateful for such extremely nice feedback, and that my answers have been of use also in teaching! Just feel free to ask me about these matters whenever needed, and I'll answer as well as I can and more than gladly! EDIT: Moved the thread to the serious discussions, as the content here starts to be somewhat informative in its general nature however.
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Post by aussieklaani on Dec 12, 2007 1:38:40 GMT 2
Geeze louise,
How hard is this language,
I thought learning Finnish would be pretty easy, they say Aussie dialect is impossible!
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Post by ingrid on Jan 4, 2008 20:18:35 GMT 2
well, after being 1 week in finland I found out that it is pretty easy... just put an "i" after every english word, and you've got the finnish word well, no, finnish seems pretty hard, at the end of the week I now know some words 'n stuff, but not much. it ain't easy!
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